[NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing

[Dena]

I received both my ADN and BSN from Regents after being a LVN for 9 yrs and
a CNA for 10 yrs. Those clinical exams were some of the most stressful and
exacting clinical experiences I ever went through! As a single working
mother, I could not afford to quit work and go to a traditional nursing
program and all the credits from my Anthropology degree transferred over for
my non-nursing credits. I would NOT recommend this course to everyone but
certainly those with enough non-RN nursing experience to draw on were great
candidates. I hear that CA no longer accepts the Regents degree for initial
RN licensure-- another state (I believe South Carolina??) never did.
Dena Galler

-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of Calif NP
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:37 AM
To: NP Info
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing

You should be more careful in your assessment of the former Regents, now
Excelsior, Assoc.Of Science In Nursing program-  years ago, within the last
10 for sure, they graduated many former military medics/patient care
specialists (enlisted nurses) who had excellent clinical skills and
experience in real world settings, as well as seasoned LVNs/LPNs with many
years of healthcare experience, and for a time Paramedics with advanced
credentials could also go through this program. These AScN  or ADN students
would then "challenge" the series of courses in the Regents curriculum-
study each course, using suggested materials/texts, and then take the exam
for that course at a proctored exam site (ie. Sylvan Learning Center, etc.)
and upon successfully completed the series of courses they would take a
practical exam to demonstrate clinical skills before a RN examiner selected
by Regents. Then they'd apply to their state Bd of Registered Nursing to
take the exam & get their RN.  You can see many 'Regents' diplomas hanging
in VetsAdmin Health clinics/offices around the country of RNs who later
became NPs.
Had it not been for programs such as Regents, many of the older RNs in the
USA might be selling real estate, teaching high school, or something else -
that would have been a real waste of their talents.
Far too many Academics have a vested financial interest in promoting more
and more and more coursework, 'standards', and scrutiny, and committees,
than can ever be objectively justified. And where these academics leave off
the so-called 'conservative' politicians jump in to further demonstrate and
argue that "nurses" should NOT be practicing medicine (until they start
making big $$ contributions to their campaigns) - to protect the public of
course.  The end result, as with the DOs (Osteopaths) is that NP practice
will be regulated, not by the Board of Nursing, but by a
Physician/conservative politician dominated machine, with a few gray haired
nursing educators thrown in to nod the heads in agreement, sort of like
those little toy dogs you see on the dash boards of cars with their heads
mounted on springs so as to nod as the car moves.
The NP concept works very well here in CA, so why change it. It has a proven
history of providing high-quality providers, who give economical care,
expand access to care, and have an excellent reputation. Why mess with this?
The NPs in CA do what they know, know what they don't know how to do well,
refer out to specialists or providers with more expertise than they may have
when appropriate, continue to learn & expand their knowledge- just like real
professionals and the world continues to turn without any apparent
disruption or imminent danger.
Consumers can chose to use NPs as their primary care providers or
Physicians - it is their choice, and NPs in CA have not ever had any
shortage of work or clients/patients!
Why can't nursing educators celebrate, commend, and promote the proven
success of NP practice as it successfully exists in CA.  What is so
problematic in these regards for the other states?

Next time you fly on a commercial airline, please ask the flight attendant
"Does our pilot today have a Ph.D?"  Start asking your municipal bus driver
when you get onto a city bus "Do you have at least an Associates Degree?"
If in either of these scenarios, after asking these questions, security
escorts you away, then there is your answer to how silly this
academia-driven, physician oriented program is to push NPs towards
ever-increasing practice/education requirements.  NP licensure is really
something the Board of Registered Nursing should decide, with legislative
approval when necessary.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Doerfler" <ericd at nightingale-project.com>
To: "'NP Info'" <npinfo at nurse.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing


> I agree. I doubt it. (I wouldn't.) Reminds me of a woman at a nursing home
I
> worked at years ago (I was the infection control nurse). I stumbled into a
> discussion among the DONs about one of the aides. She'd taken the "RN
> program" from Regent's (now Excelsior). So she went from being a CNA to
> becoming an RN with "a week of clinical at the end of the program." For
> those of you unfamiliar, Regent's/Excelsior was a "correspondence" program
> for RN to BSN, but developed other tracks, as I recall. This was one.
>
> Well, she wanted to bid on an RN position. Guess what didn't happen.
>
> In addition, the DONs composed a letter of concern to the SBON, but I
don't
> know what became of that issue at the state level.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
> Of Dena
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 9:31 PM
> To: peg at fhea.com; 'NP Info'
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing
>
> Sorry, I guess I didn't think I'd have to specify which country I was
> referring to when I posed my question to the list. Just so there is no
> mistake, I will ask it again: Why would someone in the United States, who
is
> not a nurse, want to get a PhD in nursing? This is not China... are there
> many reputable schools of nursing that hire non-nurses with PhDs in
nursing
> to teach other nurses nursing curriculum?
> Dena Galler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
> Of Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, APRN, BC, FAANP, CSP
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:03 PM
> To: NP Info
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing
>
> Re: Why would someone who is not a nurse want to get a PhD in nursing? In
> other countries, non nurses do a good deal of teaching of nurses (I know
MDs
> do a good deal of teaching in China) and are pursuing degrees in nursing.
> Oh, and one of the reasons that the MDs are getting a PhD is that the MD
is
> a practice, not research, doctorate.
>
> Peg Fitzgerald (in CA, just finished teaching a NP review course to a
great
> group of practicing and new NPs)Dr. Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, APRN, BC,
> NP-C, FAANP, CSP  President, Fitzgerald Health Education Associates, Inc.
> 85 Flagship Drive  North Andover, MA 01845-6154  978.794.8366  FNP,
Adjunct
> Faculty, Family Practice Residency  Greater Lawrence (MA) Family Health
> Center, Inc.  FHEA website www.fhea.com  FHEA on line store www.fhea.biz
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:43:03 -0500> From: pkoyl at cox.net> To:
> npinfo at nurse.net> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing> > Excellent
> POINT!> ---- jabphd83 at aol.com wrote: > > > > Shelby,> > > > I had to go
into
> the website for the SON to find that little bit of information about the
> degree does not?prepare the student?to take the RN licensure.? > > > >
> Believe me, there are a lot more easier?doctorates than nursing.? The
> research, statistics and core courses can kill you!!!?> > > > My program
> emphasized research, which happened to be in nursing.? But I can take this
> knowledge and apply it to research in other disciplines.? However, if I
> applied it to basic science research, I would still need an understanding
of
> the discipline to do basic science research!!? That is why I believe that
if
> the person in a PhD program in nursing is not a nurse, they will be have a
> lot of additional work to do to understand the discipline, before they do
> research in this area. > > Judy> > > > > > > > > > -----Original
> Message-----> > From: Havens, Shelby
> Message-----> > <havens.shelby at mail.dc.state.fl.us>> >
> To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>> > Sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 3:06 pm> >
Subject:
> RE: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing> > > > > > > > > > Judy:> > > > I didn't
> read the part that said the graduates would not be eligible to> > sit for
> the licensure exam. That's interesting. Thanks for pointing that> > out.>
>
> > > So you wonder who would want a doctorate in nursing if they aren't
> > > a> >
> nurse? Probably somebody who just wants the letters "PhD" after their> >
> name, by any route they can get it, nursing or whatever. I don't> >
> understand how people can be trained to do nursing research if they> >
> aren't nurses. > > > > Best Regards,> > > > Shelby Havens, ARNP > > > > >
>
> > > -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net
> [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On> > Behalf Of jabphd83 at aol.com> >
Sent:
> Friday, November 30, 2007 3:00 PM> > To: npinfo at nurse.net> > Subject: Re:
> [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing> > > > > > > > You've got to wonder who would
> WANT a doctorate in nursing if they> > weren't a nurse. The U of Wa states
> that this doctorate is not a> > clinical degree and will not lead to
> eligibility to sit for RN> > licensure.> > Judy> > > > -----Original
> Message-----> > From: Dena <galdena at sbcglobal.net>> > To: 'NP Info'
> <npinfo at nurse.net>> > Sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 9:48 am> > Subject: RE:
> [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing> > > > > > > > Here you go...the line is in
the
> first bulleted section....and frankly,> > I'm> > horrified and pissed off.
I
> pick my battles VERY carefully and this is> > certainly one I think worth
> fighting. I definitely think someone who> > gets a> > PhD in nursing
should
> BE a nurse!!!> > http://www.son.washington.edu/eo/phd_deadline.asp> > > >
> Dena Galler> > > > -----Original Message-----> > From:
> npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On> > Behalf> >
> Of Eric Doerfler> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:36 AM> > To: 'NP
> Info'> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing> > > > Could somebody
tell
> me where you read about such a program? > > > > -----Original
Message----->
> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On> >
> Behalf> > Of Havens, Shelby> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:52 AM>
> Behalf> > >
> To: NP Info> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing> > > > > > I think
> that is a hoot. What a sad commentary about our profession, that> > a> >
> student can get a PhD degree in Nursing with no prior training in the> >
> field.> > > > Wouldn't that be kinda like me enrolling in a doctoral
program
> in> > Physics or> > Engineering without any prior degrees in those
> disciplines?> > > > Regards,> > > > Shelby Havens, ARNP> > > > > >
> -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net
> [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On> > Behalf> > Of Tracy Klein> > Sent:
> Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:48 PM> > To: npinfo at nurse.net> > Subject:
> [NPInfo] Re: PhD in Nursing> > > > >>>>> > You dont even need to be a
nurse
> to get a PhD in Nursing.> > Yes, that's correct.> > > >
> http://www.son.washington.edu/eo/phd_deadline.asp> > > > > > Tracy Klein,
> FNP> > Portland, Oregon> >
> FNP> > _______________________________________________>
> > NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> >
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> > > >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> > > >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> > > >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> > > > > >
> ________________________________________________________________________>
>
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -> >
> http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid>
>
> =aolcmp00050000000003> > _______________________________________________>
>
> NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> >
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> > > >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> > > > > >
> ________________________________________________________________________>
>
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
>
http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aol
> cmp00050000000003> > _______________________________________________> >
> NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> >
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> >
> _______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list>
> NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
> *****************************> >
> _______________________________________________
> NPInfo mailing list
> NPInfo at nurse.net
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> *****************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> NPInfo mailing list
> NPInfo at nurse.net
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> *****************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> NPInfo mailing list
> NPInfo at nurse.net
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> *****************************

_______________________________________________
NPInfo mailing list
NPInfo at nurse.net
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
*****************************