[NPInfo] Clinical doctorate

Tue Feb 20 18:43:37 PST 2007

Jeff et al:

I think that by now (2007) we have defined what nursing practice is and 
isn't. Our state BON's and Nurse Practice Acts are essentially our 
operational "nursing theory". We don't need to grant degrees for people 
sitting around in think tanks dreaming up rhetoric about how nursing 
practice should be defined. We've already got plenty of paradigms for that.

A degree should prepare you to do something, in my opinion, to make some 
contribution to the world. Patricia Benner and a few others gave us some 
great ways to describe what we do at a non-operational level, and that's 
cool, but there are only so many ways you can reframe the same thing over 
and over. I think having doctoral students writing nursing theory in 
graduate school is a shameful waste of resources. It might be a delightful 
source of mental masturbation for the intellctually inclined, but again, it 
is not directly tied to improved patient care.

If my loved ones are ever in critical condition in a hospital, I hope they 
don't assign a nursing theorist to take care of them. I want somebody with 
some clinical expertise.

Regards,

Shelby Havens, ARNP

>From: Jeffrey Hazzard <jeffnp27 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
>To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
>Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Clinical doctorate
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:59:01 -0800 (PST)
>
>    Beth,
>
>       I am glad it was meaningful to you.
>
>      I got to do the same thing in my masters program.  We had to choose a 
>nursing theorist, (I chose Nola Pender because her theory was the shortest 
>one in the book and the silly things are really rather interchangeable) and 
>then alter the theory in a novel way to integrate the theory into our 
>practice to form a personalized practice model.  The whole ordeal was the 
>null set for me.  Oh I got an "A" and accolades for "forming a basis of 
>professional practice that will see you through a professional career" but 
>I couldn't tell you anything about Nola Pender now if you held a gun to my 
>head.
>      Beth, I understand that you may find enjoyment and purpose and gain 
>concept cohesion  from theory/grand theory as a means to organize 
>principles that are mainstays of your practice.  Unfortunately I am not 
>wired that way and will NEVER, EVER, EVER be involved in any education in 
>which nursing theory is presented as subject matter.  To take what is 
>essentially a technical job, only made professional because of the delicate 
>integration of myriad technical data to make decisions, and hang it on 
>flimsy theory is absurd and a travesty to our patients who are counting on 
>us to know our stuff.
>     I'm sorry Beth, I think you are wrong for me and most NPs.  I can't 
>see it any other way.  As I said in a nationally published op-ed piece that 
>I wrote 10 years ago and which still resonates back to me, "the emperor has 
>no clothes."
>
>          Jeff Hazzard
>
>
>   artin <epartinfnp at aol.com> wrote:
>   Jeff,
>I agree that nursing theory at the BSN & MSN level can be tedious. However, 
>at the doctorate level, it becomes much more interesting and even a little 
>fun. You get to learn how to develop your own theory as a basis for your 
>own research. Then you get to apply it. While my doctoral education was the 
>most challenging and difficult, it was also some of the most enjoyable 
>learning I have done... and all of it meaningful to my career. For me it 
>was a good choice to pursue the degree, but it's an individual choice.
>Beth Partin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Jeffrey Hazzard"
>Sent: 2/20/07 6:11:38 AM
>To: "npinfo npinfo", "ACC Listserv"
>Subject: [NPInfo] Clinical doctorate
>Here we go again. If the DNP contains the same nursing theory I've had 
>twice already (bachelors and masters level) I'm not interested. I'll go 
>into sales or be a sailboat delivery captain instead of sitting through it 
>a third time should it become mandatory. On the other hand, if a clinical 
>doctorate is reality-based, I'd both advocate for its adoption for the NP 
>(PA) professions and consider it myself.
>
>I am 43 years old. After a person turns 40 he begins to see the world for 
>what it is, and to call it by its name. I am not going to sit through a 
>course of bull$#&% a third time. I don't know much about any nursing 
>doctorates, but I know a lot about nursing faculty and being a nursing 
>student. Reality and nursing education only intersect at random intervals 
>and as tagent lines, the lines never really cross.
>
>Jeff, NP Tampa
>
>
>---------------------------------
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>See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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