[NPInfo] Clinical doctorate

Tue Feb 20 18:53:49 PST 2007

Michael:

When I read your post, I envisioned a cartoon of a nurse practitioner 
frantically leafing through a textbook. The caption would read "my patient 
has chest pain - what are Martha Rogers' treatment guidelines for chest 
pain!?!"

I don't think we can be the well respected successful health care providers 
you describe if we rely on nursing theory to guide our practices. I totally 
agree that there's not much clinical relevance for nursing theory, whether 
it is written by us or somebody else.

Regards,

Shelby Havens, ARNP

>From: "Michael B Marks, FNP" <mmarnp at ec.rr.com>
>Reply-To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
>To: "NP Info" <npinfo at nurse.net>
>Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Clinical doctorate
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:03:22 -0500
>
>I (as usual) agree with Jeff.  What possible clinical relevance would 
>developing my own theory have?  My patients come to me expecting quality 
>medical care and I give it to them with a nurse's care, compassion, and 
>holistic slant.  But it is evidence based, medical model, SOAP format, etc. 
>I just can't see giving away my hard earned money to jump through an 
>artificial construct hoop for a piece of paper that is somehow supposed to 
>validate what it is that I already do quite well. I am a well respected 
>successful health care provider in my community and just don't see the 
>point.  The only further education I could possibly conceive of is a 
>medical degree so I would not have to have a Doctor working for me anymore. 
>  If and when an advanced placement program is created for us I might, only 
>might consider it.  Along this thread that was recently seen, I have had a 
>couple of discussions with the Dean of Admissions of an Osteopathic college 
>about this very thing and they have expressed interest.  If anybody out 
>there is hot to trot on such a program please contact me.
>Michael
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Hazzard" <jeffnp27 at yahoo.com>
>To: "NP Info" <npinfo at nurse.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:59 PM
>Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Clinical doctorate
>
>
>>   Beth,
>>
>>      I am glad it was meaningful to you.
>>
>>     I got to do the same thing in my masters program.  We had to choose a 
>>nursing theorist, (I chose Nola Pender because her theory was the shortest 
>>one in the book and the silly things are really rather interchangeable) 
>>and then alter the theory in a novel way to integrate the theory into our 
>>practice to form a personalized practice model.  The whole ordeal was the 
>>null set for me.  Oh I got an "A" and accolades for "forming a basis of 
>>professional practice that will see you through a professional career" but 
>>I couldn't tell you anything about Nola Pender now if you held a gun to my 
>>head.
>>     Beth, I understand that you may find enjoyment and purpose and gain 
>>concept cohesion  from theory/grand theory as a means to organize 
>>principles that are mainstays of your practice.  Unfortunately I am not 
>>wired that way and will NEVER, EVER, EVER be involved in any education in 
>>which nursing theory is presented as subject matter.  To take what is 
>>essentially a technical job, only made professional because of the 
>>delicate integration of myriad technical data to make decisions, and hang 
>>it on flimsy theory is absurd and a travesty to our patients who are 
>>counting on us to know our stuff.
>>    I'm sorry Beth, I think you are wrong for me and most NPs.  I can't 
>>see it any other way.  As I said in a nationally published op-ed piece 
>>that I wrote 10 years ago and which still resonates back to me, "the 
>>emperor has no clothes."
>>
>>         Jeff Hazzard
>>
>>
>>  artin <epartinfnp at aol.com> wrote:
>>  Jeff,
>>I agree that nursing theory at the BSN & MSN level can be tedious. 
>>However, at the doctorate level, it becomes much more interesting and even 
>>a little fun. You get to learn how to develop your own theory as a basis 
>>for your own research. Then you get to apply it. While my doctoral 
>>education was the most challenging and difficult, it was also some of the 
>>most enjoyable learning I have done... and all of it meaningful to my 
>>career. For me it was a good choice to pursue the degree, but it's an 
>>individual choice.
>>Beth Partin
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Jeffrey Hazzard"
>>Sent: 2/20/07 6:11:38 AM
>>To: "npinfo npinfo", "ACC Listserv"
>>Subject: [NPInfo] Clinical doctorate
>>Here we go again. If the DNP contains the same nursing theory I've had 
>>twice already (bachelors and masters level) I'm not interested. I'll go 
>>into sales or be a sailboat delivery captain instead of sitting through it 
>>a third time should it become mandatory. On the other hand, if a clinical 
>>doctorate is reality-based, I'd both advocate for its adoption for the NP 
>>(PA) professions and consider it myself.
>>
>>I am 43 years old. After a person turns 40 he begins to see the world for 
>>what it is, and to call it by its name. I am not going to sit through a 
>>course of bull$#&% a third time. I don't know much about any nursing 
>>doctorates, but I know a lot about nursing faculty and being a nursing 
>>student. Reality and nursing education only intersect at random intervals 
>>and as tagent lines, the lines never really cross.
>>
>>Jeff, NP Tampa
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
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>>See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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