[NPInfo] DNP and R*E*S*P*E*C*T

Stephanie Walker stephanie2u at optonline.net
Fri Nov 30 10:40:59 PST 2007 

I don't agree that politicians/legislators will be impressed if NP's  
go to them and tell them them now have an additional degree. I think  
this is naive in light of the fact that all legislation depends on  
deal-making. NP's are very small potatoes in this game.

If and when a practice act is opened, the state medical association  
will be lobbying to restrict NPs even more, so opening a practice act  
is extremely risky. The AMA's agenda, which is what its state  
affiliates are carrying out to the best of their ability, with mega  
lobbying bucks, was all set out this past year and probably can be  
found on their website: in a few words: crush PA's and NP's.

What impresses legislators is money, not intellectual arguments : )  
The state medical associations have bought off the legislators and  
the legislators look to the medical association for advice whenever  
healthcare related legislation comes up. When the legislators ask  
their state medical association contact what they think of NP's,  
they'll get the AMA's party line. When NPs visit them to lobby, they  
will repeat the AMA's party line and pretend not to understand what  
the NPs are telling them about all their education and what they can  
do. This was my experience, anyway.

Stephanie Walker, FNP


On Nov 29, 2007, at 9:18 PM, jabphd83 at aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Sue, I agree with you.? If our state makes us collaborate, we don't  
> have independent practice.? I also live and work in a state with  
> collaborative practice.? But, when your state nursing organization  
> opens your Nurse Practice Act and lobbies for expanded practice,  
> the medical lobby will be there shouting that NPs don't have the  
> education or training for independent practice...... and the  
> majority of your state legislators will believe them for many  
> reasons including the belief that a masters degree does not equal  
> an MD (which is a clinical doctorate).
>
> Years ago the MDs were fighting with the DOs saying that the DO was  
> inferior to the MD.? It took years of education of the public and  
> legislators? to convince them that although the curriculum had  
> differences and the degree conferred had different letters, their  
> education and training as health care providers was equally  
> acceptable and was, after all, a doctoral degree.? Even today,  
> there are segments of the population who will only go to an MD  
> versus a DO.
>
> Your physician colleagues will get use to the DNP degree, just as  
> the MDs got use to the DOs.
> I do agree that as a profession, we need to come up with a clinical  
> doctorate "name" and stick to it to avoid more confusion.
> Thanks for the discussion.
> Judy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: suernfnp at iwon.com <suernfnp at iwon.com>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
> Sent: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 7:17 pm
> Subject: [NPInfo] DNP and R*E*S*P*E*C*T
>
>
>
>
> Judy, the reason I am not ready to attend my former college's DNP  
> degree program
> is because I am  not convinced in any way that this degree will  
> level the
> playing field between professions. From speaking with DOs and MDs  
> where I work,
> I would earn great respect from them if I had a PhD in any field.  
> They would not
> understand what a DNP or DNS or DrNP is. As a NP I still am  
> required to
> collaborate with a physican, so the playing field will not be level  
> in my state,
> no matter what degree I hold, until I can practice independently.
>
> Sue D in Detroit, MI - The home of Aretha and R*E*S*P*E*C*T
>
>
>
>
>  --- On Thu 11/29,  < jabphd83 at aol.com > wrote:
> From:  [mailto: jabphd83 at aol.com]
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:29:42 -0500
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Mary Mundinger
>
> Dave:??You talk about an "end degree" for the other professions,  
> but not so in
> nursing.? A Pharm.D. is a clinical doctorate.? An MD is a clinical  
> doctorate.?A
> PsyD. is a clinical doctorate.? ?A DNP, DrNP or DNS are clinical  
> doctorates.??
> If anyone in these professions want to do serious research and?have  
> major?grant
> funding, they will need a Ph.D.? That is why you may see MDs and  
> PharmDs with a
> PhD as part of their credentials.? Academically speaking, a PhD is  
> the terminal
> degree in all professions.? Many professionals do not need this  
> degree to
> practice clinically or to be clinical faculty, but to do scientific  
> research and
> receive major NIH grants and lead teams in national clinical trials  
> or to be
> tenured in a research intense university, the Ph.D. is the way to go.
> <br><br>Academically,the Ph.D. is the end degree for all  
> professions,? including
> nursing.? <br><br>Nursing came late to this conclusion and 25 - 30  
> +?yrs ago,
> nurses obtained doctorates in other disciplines
> until?the profession?concluded that along with a shared body of  
> knowledge from
> many disciplines, ?nursing had a unique body of knowledge that  
> would support a
> PhD in nursing.? Because nursing is a practice discipline with a
> solid?theoretical base, many nurses opted for a theoretically based  
> education
> with? clinical application?versus?theoretical development and basic  
> science
> research.? ?That is why?nursing first went with a clinical  
> doctorate such as a
> DNS, ND and then DNP.? These clinical doctorates are evolving, but? 
> they are all
> clinical doctorates that emphasize?clinical application built on a  
> strong
> theoretical ?base.<br><br>What we are seeing is the evolution of a  
> profession,
> with all it's growing pains, and sometimes false starts.? But  
> nursing is moving
> forward and we are setting ourselves up to compete with other  
> professions -
> practice and basic science alike. <br><br>If we want to compete for  
> health care
> dollars? and withstand the criticism of our "lack of training an!
>  d
> education" from other health professionals, we must have similar  
> educational
> endpoints ( ie: a clinical doctorate like MDs or PharmDs or PsyDs)  
> or we will
> continue to be seen as second?class providers by congress, health  
> insurers,
> other professionals, and consumers. <br><br>I realize that you are  
> a PA and may
> not have the?knowledge of nursing's history, but it is a history  
> worth noting.?
> PAs are a much younger profession than nursing and the lessons  
> learned by
> nursing, good and bad, may be something PAs should take note.?? 
> <br><br>Both
> professions know we are "good" and how well we do our jobs.? But we  
> have to get
> this message to the legislators, big business, insurers and the  
> consumers.? To
> do this, we must "prove" we have the knowledge and credentials to  
> do what we say
> we do as independent professionals.? In today's world a doctorate  
> is the
> academic credential that these groups "first" look?for before they  
> actually see
> what you can do. The academic credential is the
> proverbial "foot in the door" to gain entry and then the? 
> opportunity to prove
> we?deserve equal standing with other health care providers.  
> <br><br>I am a
> practicing NP who is politically active, a faculty member, and a  
> researcher.? I
> have also continually gone back to school to get the expertise and/ 
> or credential
> I needed to move forward in my profession and reach my goals.? At  
> times I have
> gone back to school "kicking and screaming" because I thought my 25  
> yrs of
> experience as an NP "should count for something".? However, I must  
> admit that I
> always learned something in school and it always opened up new  
> avenues to
> explore.<br><br>Individual NPs and PAs may decide they do not need  
> a doctorate
> to reach their individual goals or?enhance their practice and that  
> is OK.? But,
> as a profession, nursing needs to compete on equal footing with  
> other members of
> the health care team and to be viewed as equals by all the  
> stakeholders, we need
> the academic credentials.??The clinical
> doctorate contributes to nursings' ability to compete?on an equal  
> playing
> field.<br>Judy<br><br><br><br>-----
>
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