[NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article

Thu Apr 3 06:04:22 PDT 2008

I would also like to see emphasis on radiology, reading x-rays, ortho and casting. I like the suggestion for EGK interp.

Rose Moran-Kelly <rosemorankelly at gmail.com> wrote:  Good start Marilyn. I especially like the cadaver partRose

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Marilyn Dean wrote:

> Hi Dena,
> First I need to say that I believe that the DNP is here to stay and I
> believe it can be a positive change for Nurse Practitioners and those we
> care for.
> I agree there is less to teach the MSN NP clinically, but programs that
> are going to use the DNP for entry level need to look at the clinical
> content. Many of us have complained of lack of several things in our
> programs.
> Here would be my clinical wish list. I'm sure many could add to this. For
> the MSN NP, optional opportunities for electives in clinical areas where the
> NP feels weak would make the program more attractive and practical.
> A dedicated class to EKG interp.
> More procedures (even simple ones like lesion removal).
> Suturing beyond basic.
> More emphasis on MS evaluation.
> Anatomy class with a cadaver.
> Anyone care to add to these?
> Marilyn Dean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On
> Behalf Of Dena
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 10:18 PM
> To: 'NP Info'
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article
>
>
> The 18-24 mos MSN to DNP bridging programs don't typically have any
> clinical components as we received our clinical experience in our MSN-NP
> programs. What else could they teach us about clinical stuff-- especially
> for those of us who have many years of clinical experience already behind
> us? The new 3-4 year DNP NP programs (which will replace the 2 yr MSN NP
> programs) will, of course, contain all the clinical experience that we
> received in our MSN programs PLUS the additional "doctoral" level courses.
> To say that the DNP is the "clinical" doctorate simply means it isn't
> research based-- most DNP programs require a Capstone project (not a
> research dissertation) based on evidence based practice to solve a clinical
> problem and borrows from research already done by others. This separates the
> DNP from the more research heavy DNSc and PhD. It was explained to me that
> DNPs take the PhD and DNSc dissertations down from their high shelves, blow
> off the dust, and actually put that re!
> search into clinical practice. It's basically that simple. The DNP does
> NOT teach the MSN prepared NP ANYTHING clinical at all. Again, what could
> they teach us???
> Dena Galler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
> Of Marilyn Dean
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 6:18 PM
> To: NP Info
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article
>
> Review the program format for the DNP and see what you think about
> clinical
> content. I have looked at one well known program and found it lacking in
> additional clinical content. I was disappointed.
> Marilyn Dean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On
> Behalf Of David Mittman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:26 PM
> To: NP Info
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article
>
>
> Tracey: I comment vocally and forcefully all the time on how the PA
> profession is not forwarding itself.
> As everyone knows, I am not an NP, so I comment as a professional
> colleague or cousin and as someone who has been involved in medical
> politics for many years.
> Reading the article, three things struck me. At the same time the
> Medical Society of the State of NY is attacking the scope of practice
> of PAs, do we really need the "we are as good as doctors" spin this
> DNP article espouses? It is the NPs of NY State and elsewhere (as the
> WALL STREET JOURNAL is read nationally) who will get the push back on
> these comments and I am not sure if they are said with the discretion
> the times may dictate .
> Secondly, the assertion that DNPs (see chart) are only NPs who go on
> for further education. That is just not true. As it is not just NPs,
> one can not generalize about the graduates "being equivalent to
> family physicians". I doubt a DNP midwife can practice primary care.
> Lastly there is an underlying notion to ME that Master's prepared NPs
> are less than DNPs. There are three levels of nurse talked about in
> the article and chart. The reader comes away thinking these DNP
> graduates will get more clinical training and that is also just not
> the case. There I no studies I know of that show that the DNP is
> clinically superior to any other NP in clinical practice. That
> article strongly suggests that.
> I would be very bothered by that assertion.
> OK, mini rant off now.
> Dave
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Tracy Klein wrote:
>
> > The section of this article that disturbed me was the phrase:
> > "equivalent to family physicians". I would assume (and may still
> > assume, I suppose) that this was a misquote. Unfortunately, I've
> > read the same language several times from this particular
> > spokesperson. While it may be expeditious to assert that the DNP in
> > New York is "more better" in order to gain regulatory autonomy, it
> > does not do the rest of the profession any favors to compare them,
> > once again, to a physician standard as the superior standard and to
> > their practicing peers as the inferior standard.
> >
> > As a disclaimer, I favor the DNP, but I care about how we talk
> > about it and the terminology we use.
> >
> > Tracy Klein, WHCNP,FNP
> > Portland, Oregon
> >
> > npinfo-request at nurse.net wrote:
> > Send NPInfo mailing list submissions to
> > npinfo at nurse.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> >
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> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of NPInfo digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. MRSA Dr Phil Style (Priscilla Merrill)
> > 2. WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (SGrtWhite at aol.com)
> > 3. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (David Mittman)
> > 4. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" ... comment (Nbalkon at aol.com)
> > 5. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (Thiem)
> > 6. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (David Mittman)
> > 7. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (Kate Hammill)
> > 8. Wall Street Journal DNP article (David Mittman)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 06:45:36 -0400
> > From: "Priscilla Merrill"
> >
> > Subject: [NPInfo] MRSA Dr Phil Style
> > To: "'NP Clinical'" , "'NP Info'"
> >
> > Message-ID: <00ec01c894ae$af456480$6700a8c0 at Priscilla>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
> >
> > Did any of you see Dr. Phil yesterday? It was on MRSA/ ãSuperbugä
> > I think he did a good job overall presenting most of the key points.
> > Have any of you seen, heard of or used the uv light ãCleanse Wandä?
> > Fascinating!
> > HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK http://www.cleanselight.com
> > http://www.cleanselight.com" HYPERLINK www.cleanselight.com
> > www.cleanselight.com (I see they sold out quickly after his show )
> > He carried a diluted spray bottle of Lysol wherever he goes (Dr.
> > Sears, no
> > Phil)
> > A little hype perhaps but food for thought.
> > We donât seem to have the MRSA problem as severely here in NH as
> > others.
> > Too darn cold for those bugs! Iâm finally seeing patches of grass
> > through
> > the snow!
> >
> > HYPERLINK http://drphil.com/shows/show/1048/
> > http://drphil.com/shows/show/1048/
> >
> > Priscilla Merrill FNP
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
> > 4/1/2008
> > 5:37 PM
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:09:42 EDT
> > From: SGrtWhite at aol.com
> > Subject: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"
> > To: npinfo at nurse.net
> > Message-ID:
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> > mod=WSJBlog_
> > (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> > mod=WSJBlog)
> >
> > An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and
> > nurse
> > practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:
> >
> > "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ‰¥þDr.‰¥ÿ some
> > physicians
> > worry that patients could become confused. ‰¥þNurses with an
> > advanced degree are
> > not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,‰¥ÿ says
> > Roger Moore,
> > incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."
> >
> > See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that
> > we are
> > physicians. Please!
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
> > on AOL
> > Home.
> > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
> > video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:26:47 -0400
> > From: David Mittman
> > Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"
> > To: NP Info
> > Message-ID:
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
> > format=flowed
> >
> > When you are a physician you feel that you are captain of the ship
> > (and in many ways you are).
> > Others come along that SAY that they can do what you do........
> > They say that you do not need to go to medical school to be a good
> > clinician...............
> > And now some of these people want to be referred to as "Doctor".
> > I fully understand how physicians would at a minimum feel that
> > patients will be confused (and they will be) and at a maximum, how
> > there will soon be no difference between others who did not do it
> > "the right way" as they did which to them is the ONLY way one can
> > do it.
> > I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to docs generally.
> > That being said if you have a doctorate in a clinical area, you
> > earned it and should use it.
> > Dave
> >
> > On Apr 2, 2008, at 10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> >> mod=WSJBlog_
> >> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> >> mod=WSJBlog)
> >>
> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and
> >> nurse
> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:
> >>
> >> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ãDr.ä some
> >> physicians
> >> worry that patients could become confused. ãNurses with an advanced
> >> degree are
> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,ä says
> >> Roger Moore,
> >> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."
> >>
> >> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that
> >> we are
> >> physicians. Please!
> >>
> >> Stephen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
> >> on AOL
> >> Home.
> >> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
> >> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NPInfo mailing list
> >> NPInfo at nurse.net
> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> >> *****************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:37:28 EDT
> > From: Nbalkon at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" ... comment
> > To: npinfo at nurse.net
> > Message-ID:
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Good Day....
> >
> > Am responding to the quote below...
> >
> > My name tag clearly states Nancy Balkon, PhD, NP
> >
> > It has been "the physicians" who have called me "Dr".... and the
> > patients
> > who are often interested to know that nurses earn advanced
> > degrees.... yes,
> > EVEN doctorates!
> >
> > Sighhh.... the "medical school"/ "medical education" argument is
> > soooooo old
> > and over-rated! Medical school is FOUR years post baccalaureate
> > education.... with.... "internship"/"residency" thereafter....
> >
> > Comparing this to APRN education [didactic & clinical]...and...
> > years in
> > practice..... isn't worth the bother....
> >
> > WHAT is impt. is that we, as health professionals, should
> > "celebrate" and
> > "respect" the uniqueness of one another, collaborate
> > professionally, and work
> > together toward a common goal... improving health care in this
> > country! This
> > is the most profitable expenditure of the energy wasted on turf
> > battles!
> >
> > "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ‰¥þDr.‰¥ÿ some
> > physicians
> > worry that patients could become confused. ‰¥þNurses with an
> > advanced degree
> > are
> > not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,‰¥ÿ says
> > Roger Moore,
> > incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."
> >
> > _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> > mod=WSJBlog_
> > (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> > mod=WSJBlog)
> >
> > Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
> > Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
> > Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of Nursing
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
> > on AOL
> > Home.
> > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
> > video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:38:41 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Thiem
> > Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"
> > To: NP Info
> > Message-ID: <690808.75384.qm at web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > In Missouri this restricted use of "Dr" has been suggested in
> > legislation by the physician groups. Our (nurses) suggestion is
> > that anyone who uses "Dr" must also identify what type of doctorate
> > they hold. This would include all professions and would distribute
> > the responsibility of disclosure evenly.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> > SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote: _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/
> > say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_
> > (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> > mod=WSJBlog)
> >
> > An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and
> > nurse
> > practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:
> >
> > "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ‰¥þDr.‰¥ÿ some
> > physicians
> > worry that patients could become confused. ‰¥þNurses with an
> > advanced degree are
> > not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,‰¥ÿ says
> > Roger Moore,
> > incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."
> >
> > See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that
> > we are
> > physicians. Please!
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
> > on AOL
> > Home.
> > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
> > video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
> > _______________________________________________
> > NPInfo mailing list
> > NPInfo at nurse.net
> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> > *****************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:13:56 -0400
> > From: David Mittman
> > Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"
> > To: NP Info
> > Message-ID:
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
> > format=flowed
> >
> > Many states already have this law (prohibiting the use of the term
> > "doctor" in a medical setting). It will be interesting to see how
> > this all plays out.
> > Years ago, there were no other doctorates that did what physicians
> > did, so no one opposed.
> > Now there are. The mistake that will take years to correct, is that
> > society made physician and doctor a word with the same meaning.
> > Generally still holds. When one screams "Is there a doctor in the
> > house?" in a public place they are not asking for a PharmD.
> > And to deny that it will confuse patients is to deny reality. AGAIN
> > that still is no excuse for prohibiting us using it, only that we
> > should be sensative to that confusion and possibly address it.
> > Dave
> > On Apr 2, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Thiem wrote:
> >
> >> In Missouri this restricted use of "Dr" has been suggested in
> >> legislation by the physician groups. Our (nurses) suggestion is
> >> that anyone who uses "Dr" must also identify what type of doctorate
> >> they hold. This would include all professions and would distribute
> >> the responsibility of disclosure evenly.
> >>
> >> Laura
> >>
> >> SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote: _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/
> >> say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_
> >> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> >> mod=WSJBlog)
> >>
> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and
> >> nurse
> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:
> >>
> >> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ãDr.ä some
> >> physicians
> >> worry that patients could become confused. ãNurses with an advanced
> >> degree are
> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,ä says
> >> Roger Moore,
> >> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."
> >>
> >> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that
> >> we are
> >> physicians. Please!
> >>
> >> Stephen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
> >> on AOL
> >> Home.
> >> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
> >> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NPInfo mailing list
> >> NPInfo at nurse.net
> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> >> *****************************
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NPInfo mailing list
> >> NPInfo at nurse.net
> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> >> *****************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Kate Hammill
> > Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"
> > To: NP Info
> > Message-ID: <729375.57014.qm at web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > The proper name for them is "physician". "Doctor" is
> > a broader term encompassing the Doctor of Philosophy,
> > among other things, and is owned and used properly by
> > thousand who are non-physicians. Physicians have no
> > leg to stand on that this term belongs to only them
> > and we should not let them get away with it--I never
> > use the term "doctor" to describe them--always
> > "physician" (and usually add "heal thyself" as an
> > aside.) Boy, its' a full time job, isn't it, just
> > keeping up with the dishonesty and disingenuousness of
> > this gang.
> > Kate Hammill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- David Mittman wrote:
> >
> >> When you are a physician you feel that you are
> >> captain of the ship
> >> (and in many ways you are).
> >> Others come along that SAY that they can do what you
> >> do........
> >> They say that you do not need to go to medical
> >> school to be a good
> >> clinician...............
> >> And now some of these people want to be referred to
> >> as "Doctor".
> >> I fully understand how physicians would at a minimum
> >> feel that
> >> patients will be confused (and they will be) and at
> >> a maximum, how
> >> there will soon be no difference between others who
> >> did not do it
> >> "the right way" as they did which to them is the
> >> ONLY way one can do it.
> >> I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to
> >> docs generally.
> >> That being said if you have a doctorate in a
> >> clinical area, you
> >> earned it and should use it.
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> On Apr 2, 2008, at 10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> > _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?
> >>
> >>> mod=WSJBlog_
> >>>
> >>
> > (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?

=== message truncated ===

    Willie Olson, MSN, RN, FNP-C
  Marysville, CA. 95901  
  530-682-8560

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