[NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article

[Sue Wiers]

Agreed.  I remember driving around with FHEA cassette tapes after getting out while looking for my first job.  It helped bridge some gaps.  
 
Sue



> From: lindamarie76 at msn.com> To: npinfo at nurse.net> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:21:54 -0400> > > Just my two cents. . . . please no flames. . . . > > The only cadaver experience I had was with a cat in my A&P classes which were taken as a pre-req to nursing school (how many years ago???). I have never taken a suture class (and I am left handed). 12 lead EKGs I learned on my own. > > Muscoloskeltal was grossly neglected in my program. I bought all of Peg Fitzgerald's tapes to learn what I know.> > - Linda > From: meyerlm at chartermi.net> To: npinfo at nurse.net> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:02:10 -0500> > Dena and group--> > First, do you know how extremly unusual it is to have a cadaver experience > at a community college? I took my A&P in a research-based university > pre-med program and we had kitty cats--never saw a cadaver. Medicals > schools DO require undergraduate anatomy as well as med school anatomy on > cadavers. My NP program did not require anatomy beyond our undergraduate > course.> > My NP program did not cover 12 lead interp, as "most of you already know > this". I never had 12 lead interp in my undergraduate training, nor was I > ever expected as an RN to read 12-leads. I had basic instruction on rhythm > strips in my ACLS courses.> > As for suturing, I never had the opportunity to place a stitch in my NP > program, but we did get a 4 hour workshop with a pig hock. My current role > as a part time ED NP requires me to suture (sometimes complex wounds) 1-4 > times per shift.> > I had no idea when I was in my NP program, exactly what areas in would end > up working in during my career. I had no idea that I would end up in an ED > or working in mental health as I also do part time. I really think that our > clinical education needs a more standardized, broader range. Because NP > students often have to find their own clinical experiences, it is possible > for an NP student to choose their hours between a couple of "favorites" or > whatever is available. This wouldn't be terrible if we knew that the NP > would only end up practicing in these specialties.> > Our NP programs are not turning out equivalent, well-rounded students in > many cases, and a DNP with more clinical content could help to solve some of > that problem--but it won't as it stands. As for repitition, how many > statistics, research utilization, and management classes does one need?> > Lisa> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dena" <galdena at sbcglobal.net>> To: "'NP Info'" <npinfo at nurse.net>> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:15 AM> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> > > > Marilyn--> > A couple of questions about your wish list.> >> > Shouldn't anatomy with a cadaver be done as an undergraduate? Is there a > > reason that someone in a DNP program would need to learn that stuff all > > over again? I had my cadaver experience at the community college level-- > > and certainly wouldn’t have wanted to have repeated it now in my DNP > > program! How many anatomy classes do you think someone needs?> >> > In my MSN NP program we had a whole day of EKGs (although I missed that > > day <G>)-- being nurses already, most of us had some experience with > > reading them. How long do you think an EKG class should be-- a whole > > semester?> >> > Beyond basic suturing? Certainly not something everyone needs to know (how > > many people actually do ANY suturing in their clinic practices?) and don’t > > you think advanced suturing (and more intense EKG experience) could come > > in the one year residency if someone is interested in an ED, plastics, or > > other specialty area where that knowledge is necessary?> >> > "MS" as in Multiple Sclerosis or M/S as in musculoskeletal? Again, for > > those interested, an ortho or sports medicine rotation during the > > residency could cover all of this.> >> > The reason the NP programs are being expanded in length is that "those in > > power above" now realize that they can’t teach everything we need to know > > in 2 years. And with this added 1-2 yrs to the already 2+ yrs of the > > current MSN program, we have enough hours of education that it becomes > > equivalent to other health care "doctoral" programs (PT, PharmD, etc), > > therefore we certainly deserve our "Dr" title as well for an extended > > program. This is the whole rationale behind the DNP degree. You just can’t > > cram any more clinical content into the MSN NP programs-- you can only > > cram so much into 2 years.> > Dena Galler> >> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf > > Of Marilyn Dean> > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:12 AM> > To: NP Info> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> > Hi Dena,> > First I need to say that I believe that the DNP is here to stay and I > > believe it can be a positive change for Nurse Practitioners and those we > > care for.> > I agree there is less to teach the MSN NP clinically, but programs that > > are going to use the DNP for entry level need to look at the clinical > > content. Many of us have complained of lack of several things in our > > programs.> > Here would be my clinical wish list. I'm sure many could add to this. For > > the MSN NP, optional opportunities for electives in clinical areas where > > the NP feels weak would make the program more attractive and practical.> > A dedicated class to EKG interp.> > More procedures (even simple ones like lesion removal).> > Suturing beyond basic.> > More emphasis on MS evaluation.> > Anatomy class with a cadaver.> > Anyone care to add to these?> > Marilyn Dean> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On> > Behalf Of Dena> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 10:18 PM> > To: 'NP Info'> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> >> > The 18-24 mos MSN to DNP bridging programs don't typically have any > > clinical components as we received our clinical experience in our MSN-NP > > programs. What else could they teach us about clinical stuff-- especially > > for those of us who have many years of clinical experience already behind > > us? The new 3-4 year DNP NP programs (which will replace the 2 yr MSN NP > > programs) will, of course, contain all the clinical experience that we > > received in our MSN programs PLUS the additional "doctoral" level courses. > > To say that the DNP is the "clinical" doctorate simply means it isn't > > research based-- most DNP programs require a Capstone project (not a > > research dissertation) based on evidence based practice to solve a > > clinical problem and borrows from research already done by others. This > > separates the DNP from the more research heavy DNSc and PhD. It was > > explained to me that DNPs take the PhD and DNSc dissertations down from > > their high shelves, blow off the dust, and actually put that re!> > search into clinical practice. It's basically that simple. The DNP does > > NOT teach the MSN prepared NP ANYTHING clinical at all. Again, what could > > they teach us???> > Dena Galler> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf > > Of Marilyn Dean> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 6:18 PM> > To: NP Info> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> > Review the program format for the DNP and see what you think about > > clinical> > content. I have looked at one well known program and found it lacking in> > additional clinical content. I was disappointed.> > Marilyn Dean> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On> > Behalf Of David Mittman> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:26 PM> > To: NP Info> > Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> >> > Tracey: I comment vocally and forcefully all the time on how the PA> > profession is not forwarding itself.> > As everyone knows, I am not an NP, so I comment as a professional> > colleague or cousin and as someone who has been involved in medical> > politics for many years.> > Reading the article, three things struck me. At the same time the> > Medical Society of the State of NY is attacking the scope of practice> > of PAs, do we really need the "we are as good as doctors" spin this> > DNP article espouses? It is the NPs of NY State and elsewhere (as the> > WALL STREET JOURNAL is read nationally) who will get the push back on> > these comments and I am not sure if they are said with the discretion> > the times may dictate .> > Secondly, the assertion that DNPs (see chart) are only NPs who go on> > for further education. That is just not true. As it is not just NPs,> > one can not generalize about the graduates "being equivalent to> > family physicians". I doubt a DNP midwife can practice primary care.> > Lastly there is an underlying notion to ME that Master's prepared NPs> > are less than DNPs. There are three levels of nurse talked about in> > the article and chart. The reader comes away thinking these DNP> > graduates will get more clinical training and that is also just not> > the case. There I no studies I know of that show that the DNP is> > clinically superior to any other NP in clinical practice. That> > article strongly suggests that.> > I would be very bothered by that assertion.> > OK, mini rant off now.> > Dave> >> >> > On Apr 2, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Tracy Klein wrote:> >> >> The section of this article that disturbed me was the phrase:> >> "equivalent to family physicians". I would assume (and may still> >> assume, I suppose) that this was a misquote. Unfortunately, I've> >> read the same language several times from this particular> >> spokesperson. While it may be expeditious to assert that the DNP in> >> New York is "more better" in order to gain regulatory autonomy, it> >> does not do the rest of the profession any favors to compare them,> >> once again, to a physician standard as the superior standard and to> >> their practicing peers as the inferior standard.> >>> >> As a disclaimer, I favor the DNP, but I care about how we talk> >> about it and the terminology we use.> >>> >> Tracy Klein, WHCNP,FNP> >> Portland, Oregon> >>> >> npinfo-request at nurse.net wrote:> >> Send NPInfo mailing list submissions to> >> npinfo at nurse.net> >>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> >> npinfo-request at nurse.net> >>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at> >> npinfo-owner at nurse.net> >>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> >> than "Re: Contents of NPInfo digest..."> >>> >>> >> Today's Topics:> >>> >> 1. MRSA Dr Phil Style (Priscilla Merrill)> >> 2. WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (SGrtWhite at aol.com)> >> 3. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (David Mittman)> >> 4. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" ... comment (Nbalkon at aol.com)> >> 5. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (Thiem)> >> 6. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (David Mittman)> >> 7. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (Kate Hammill)> >> 8. Wall Street Journal DNP article (David Mittman)> >>> >>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 1> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 06:45:36 -0400> >> From: "Priscilla Merrill"> >>> >> Subject: [NPInfo] MRSA Dr Phil Style> >> To: "'NP Clinical'" , "'NP Info'"> >>> >> Message-ID: <00ec01c894ae$af456480$6700a8c0 at Priscilla>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> >>> >> Did any of you see Dr. Phil yesterday? It was on MRSA/ ãSuperbugä> >> I think he did a good job overall presenting most of the key points.> >> Have any of you seen, heard of or used the uv light ãCleanse Wandä?> >> Fascinating!> >> HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK http://www.cleanselight.com> >> http://www.cleanselight.com" HYPERLINK www.cleanselight.com> >> www.cleanselight.com (I see they sold out quickly after his show )> >> He carried a diluted spray bottle of Lysol wherever he goes (Dr.> >> Sears, no> >> Phil)> >> A little hype perhaps but food for thought.> >> We donât seem to have the MRSA problem as severely here in NH as> >> others.> >> Too darn cold for those bugs! Iâm finally seeing patches of grass> >> through> >> the snow!> >>> >> HYPERLINK http://drphil.com/shows/show/1048/> >> http://drphil.com/shows/show/1048/> >>> >> Priscilla Merrill FNP> >>> >>> >>> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.> >> Checked by AVG.> >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:> >> 4/1/2008> >> 5:37 PM> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 2> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:09:42 EDT> >> From: SGrtWhite at aol.com> >> Subject: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: npinfo at nurse.net> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >>> >> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >> mod=WSJBlog_> >> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >> mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and> >> nurse> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:> >>> >> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ‰¥þDr.‰¥ÿ some> >> physicians> >> worry that patients could become confused. ‰¥þNurses with an> >> advanced degree are> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,‰¥ÿ says> >> Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>> >> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that> >> we are> >> physicians. Please!> >>> >> Stephen> >>> >>> >>> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 3> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:26:47 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;> >> format=flowed> >>> >> When you are a physician you feel that you are captain of the ship> >> (and in many ways you are).> >> Others come along that SAY that they can do what you do........> >> They say that you do not need to go to medical school to be a good> >> clinician...............> >> And now some of these people want to be referred to as "Doctor".> >> I fully understand how physicians would at a minimum feel that> >> patients will be confused (and they will be) and at a maximum, how> >> there will soon be no difference between others who did not do it> >> "the right way" as they did which to them is the ONLY way one can> >> do it.> >> I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to docs generally.> >> That being said if you have a doctorate in a clinical area, you> >> earned it and should use it.> >> Dave> >>> >> On Apr 2, 2008, at 10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote:> >>> >>> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>> mod=WSJBlog_> >>> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>> mod=WSJBlog)> >>>> >>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and> >>> nurse> >>> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:> >>>> >>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ãDr.ä some> >>> physicians> >>> worry that patients could become confused. ãNurses with an advanced> >>> degree are> >>> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,ä says> >>> Roger Moore,> >>> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>>> >>> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that> >>> we are> >>> physicians. Please!> >>>> >>> Stephen> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >>> on AOL> >>> Home.> >>> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list> >>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 4> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:37:28 EDT> >> From: Nbalkon at aol.com> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" ... comment> >> To: npinfo at nurse.net> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >>> >> Good Day....> >>> >> Am responding to the quote below...> >>> >> My name tag clearly states Nancy Balkon, PhD, NP> >>> >> It has been "the physicians" who have called me "Dr".... and the> >> patients> >> who are often interested to know that nurses earn advanced> >> degrees.... yes,> >> EVEN doctorates!> >>> >> Sighhh.... the "medical school"/ "medical education" argument is> >> soooooo old> >> and over-rated! Medical school is FOUR years post baccalaureate> >> education.... with.... "internship"/"residency" thereafter....> >>> >> Comparing this to APRN education [didactic & clinical]...and...> >> years in> >> practice..... isn't worth the bother....> >>> >> WHAT is impt. is that we, as health professionals, should> >> "celebrate" and> >> "respect" the uniqueness of one another, collaborate> >> professionally, and work> >> together toward a common goal... improving health care in this> >> country! This> >> is the most profitable expenditure of the energy wasted on turf> >> battles!> >>> >> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ‰¥þDr.‰¥ÿ some> >> physicians> >> worry that patients could become confused. ‰¥þNurses with an> >> advanced degree> >> are> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,‰¥ÿ says> >> Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>> >> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >> mod=WSJBlog_> >> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >> mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> >> Southern New York State Representative -- AANP> >> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of Nursing> >>> >>> >>> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 5> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:38:41 -0700 (PDT)> >> From: Thiem> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID: <690808.75384.qm at web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> >>> >> In Missouri this restricted use of "Dr" has been suggested in> >> legislation by the physician groups. Our (nurses) suggestion is> >> that anyone who uses "Dr" must also identify what type of doctorate> >> they hold. This would include all professions and would distribute> >> the responsibility of disclosure evenly.> >>> >> Laura> >>> >> SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote: _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/> >> say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_> >> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >> mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and> >> nurse> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:> >>> >> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ‰¥þDr.‰¥ÿ some> >> physicians> >> worry that patients could become confused. ‰¥þNurses with an> >> advanced degree are> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,‰¥ÿ says> >> Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>> >> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that> >> we are> >> physicians. Please!> >>> >> Stephen> >>> >>> >>> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >> _______________________________________________> >> NPInfo mailing list> >> NPInfo at nurse.net> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 6> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:13:56 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;> >> format=flowed> >>> >> Many states already have this law (prohibiting the use of the term> >> "doctor" in a medical setting). It will be interesting to see how> >> this all plays out.> >> Years ago, there were no other doctorates that did what physicians> >> did, so no one opposed.> >> Now there are. The mistake that will take years to correct, is that> >> society made physician and doctor a word with the same meaning.> >> Generally still holds. When one screams "Is there a doctor in the> >> house?" in a public place they are not asking for a PharmD.> >> And to deny that it will confuse patients is to deny reality. AGAIN> >> that still is no excuse for prohibiting us using it, only that we> >> should be sensative to that confusion and possibly address it.> >> Dave> >> On Apr 2, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Thiem wrote:> >>> >>> In Missouri this restricted use of "Dr" has been suggested in> >>> legislation by the physician groups. Our (nurses) suggestion is> >>> that anyone who uses "Dr" must also identify what type of doctorate> >>> they hold. This would include all professions and would distribute> >>> the responsibility of disclosure evenly.> >>>> >>> Laura> >>>> >>> SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote: _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/> >>> say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_> >>> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>> mod=WSJBlog)> >>>> >>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate degrees and> >>> nurse> >>> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:> >>>> >>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use ãDr.ä some> >>> physicians> >>> worry that patients could become confused. ãNurses with an advanced> >>> degree are> >>> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school,ä says> >>> Roger Moore,> >>> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>>> >>> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that> >>> we are> >>> physicians. Please!> >>>> >>> Stephen> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >>> on AOL> >>> Home.> >>> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list> >>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>> *****************************> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list> >>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 7> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:15:39 -0700 (PDT)> >> From: Kate Hammill> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID: <729375.57014.qm at web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> >>> >> The proper name for them is "physician". "Doctor" is> >> a broader term encompassing the Doctor of Philosophy,> >> among other things, and is owned and used properly by> >> thousand who are non-physicians. Physicians have no> >> leg to stand on that this term belongs to only them> >> and we should not let them get away with it--I never> >> use the term "doctor" to describe them--always> >> "physician" (and usually add "heal thyself" as an> >> aside.) Boy, its' a full time job, isn't it, just> >> keeping up with the dishonesty and disingenuousness of> >> this gang.> >> Kate Hammill> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> --- David Mittman wrote:> >>> >>> When you are a physician you feel that you are> >>> captain of the ship> >>> (and in many ways you are).> >>> Others come along that SAY that they can do what you> >>> do........> >>> They say that you do not need to go to medical> >>> school to be a good> >>> clinician...............> >>> And now some of these people want to be referred to> >>> as "Doctor".> >>> I fully understand how physicians would at a minimum> >>> feel that> >>> patients will be confused (and they will be) and at> >>> a maximum, how> >>> there will soon be no difference between others who> >>> did not do it> >>> "the right way" as they did which to them is the> >>> ONLY way one can do it.> >>> I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to> >>> docs generally.> >>> That being said if you have a doctorate in a> >>> clinical area, you> >>> earned it and should use it.> >>> Dave> >>>> >>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com> >>> wrote:> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>> >>>> mod=WSJBlog_> >>>>> >>>> >> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>> >>>> mod=WSJBlog)> >>>>> >>>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about> >>> doctorate degrees and> >>>> nurse> >>>> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:> >>>>> >>>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use> >>> ãDr.ä some> >>>> physicians> >>>> worry that patients could become confused. ãNurses> >>> with an advanced> >>>> degree are> >>>> not the same as doctors who have been to medical> >>> school,ä says> >>>> Roger Moore,> >>>> incoming president of the American Society of> >>> Anesthesiologists."> >>>>> >>>> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients> >>> into thinking that> >>>> we are> >>>> physicians. Please!> >>>>> >>>> Stephen> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros.> >>> Watch the video> >>>> on AOL> >>>> Home.> >>>>> >>>> >> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>>> >>>> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> NPInfo mailing list> >>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>>> *****************************> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list> >>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>> *****************************> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> ______________________________________________________________________> >> ______________> >> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of> >> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.> >> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 8> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:26:35 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: [NPInfo] Wall Street Journal DNP article> >> To: ACC Circle Circle , NPinfo> >> , PA Forum> >>> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed> >>> >> Keeping the argument aside on whether one needs this or not- I know> >> that not just NPs are able to get the DNP and that in many programs> >> there is little advanced CLINICAL training (ie. clinical residency).> >> This article seems to suggest something very different. It is one> >> institutions view of the DNP not what is fully happening.> >> Dave> >>> >>> >> Making Room> >> For 'Dr. Nurse'> >> April 2, 2008; Page D1> >> As the shortage of primary-care physicians mounts, the nursing> >> profession is offering a possible solution: the "doctor nurse."> >>> >> More than 200 nursing schools have established or plan to launch> >> doctorate of nursing practice programs to equip graduates with skills> >> the schools say are equivalent to primary-care physicians. The two-> >> year programs, including a one-year residency, create a "hybrid> >> practitioner" with more skills, knowledge and training than a nurse> >> practitioner with a master's degree, says Mary Mundinger, dean of New> >> York's Columbia University School of Nursing. She says DNPs are being> >> trained to have more focus than doctors on coordinating care among> >> many specialists and health-care settings.> >>> >>> >> •À¹> >>> >> Dawn Bucher, DNP, and child patient at Ivanhoe Clinic in Ivanhoe,> >> Minn.> >> To establish a national standard for doctors of nursing practice, the> >> non-profit Council for the Advancement of Comprehensive Care plans to> >> announce Wednesday that the National Board of Medical Examiners has> >> agreed to develop a voluntary DNP certification exam based on the> >> same test physicians take to qualify for a medical license. The board> >> will begin administering the exam this fall. By 2015, the American> >> Association of Colleges of Nursing aims to make the doctoral degree> >> the standard for all new advanced practice nurses, including nurse> >> practitioners.> >>> >> But some physician groups warn that blurring the line between doctors> >> and nurses will confuse patients and jeopardize care. Nurses with> >> doctorates use DrNP after their name, and can also use the> >> designation Dr. as a title. Physician groups want DNPs to be required> >> to clearly state to patients and prospective students that they are> >> not medical doctors. "Nurses with an advanced degree are not the same> >> as doctors who have been to medical school," says Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists.> >>> >> "With four years of medical school and three years of residency> >> training, physicians' understanding of complex medical issues and> >> clinical expertise is unequaled," adds James King, president of the> >> American Academy of Family Physicians. While nurses with advanced> >> degrees play an important role in delivering care, Dr. King says they> >> should work as part of a physician-directed team.> >>> >> Although there are no precise statistics on the number of nurses with> >> doctorates because the programs are relatively new, there are about> >> 1,874 DNP students currently enrolled in programs nationwide, up from> >> 862 students in 2006, according to the American Association of> >> Colleges of Nursing.> >>> >> Nurses have increasingly been moving into more specialized and> >> advanced roles over the past few decades. Advanced-practice nurses> >> include specialists in fields such as nurse midwives and nurse> >> anesthetists, and there are now more than 125,000 nurse practitioners> >> in the U.S. Nurse practitioners in some states are required to work> >> with or be supervised by physicians, but often have independent> >> practices in family medicine, adult care, pediatrics and oncology.> >>> >> A study led by Columbia's Dr. Mundinger and published in the Journal> >> of the American Medical Association in 2000 showed comparable patient> >> outcomes in patients randomly assigned to nurse practitioners and> >> primary-care physicians.> >>> >> Nurse practitioners fear the doctoral programs might be raising the> >> bar too high for their profession. The American Academy of Nurse> >> Practitioners says it supports access to a higher educational degree> >> for nurses, but wants to ensure that members won't be marginalized or> >> required to go back to school for a costly advanced degree. Nurse> >> practitioners can write prescriptions, are eligible for Medicare and> >> Medicaid reimbursement, and often act as the primary health-care> >> provider for their patients.> >>> >> "Nurse practitioners with master's degrees are already filling the> >> primary-care shortages and providing quality, cost-effective care,> >> many times in places that physicians are unwilling to practice," says> >> Wendy Vogel, a nurse practitioner specializing in oncology at Blue> >>> >> === message truncated ===> >> _______________________________________________> >> NPInfo mailing list> >> NPInfo at nurse.net> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >> *****************************> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> > *****************************> >> > _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> > *****************************> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> > *****************************> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> > *****************************> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> > *****************************> > > > _______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list> NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> *****************************_______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list> NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> *****************************
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