[NPInfo] RE: NPInfo Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23
Anne Chamberlain
aec417 at comcast.net
Sat Apr 5 11:03:50 PDT 2008
Another thought on NP exams & comparing with MD exams... Do MD candidates
not have a harder time with *their* exams more because they have not have
had as much exposure to medical care, etc. (undergrad degree is not in
nursing, medical care, etc.) and NP's have been practicing as nurses already
(sometimes for decades). It seems our NP test would *feel* easier because we
already have SO MUCH experience and knowledge (part of why NP programs
started in the first place to fill a need for medical care without requiring
nurses who already are clearly qualified to be clinicians to practice). A
smart new doc knows to trust his seasoned nurse... When I've picked up MCAD
prep books, they feel the same as the NP prep stuff and I don't feel that
they are any harder necessarily. I'm not saying that we are the same (NPs
and MD's), but there are parallels. It seems to me that the differentiation
occurs when MD's do their specialties.
My grandfather-in-law was a MD/surgeon. Back then the training was a BA or
BS plus 2 years in medical training. His father was a "doctor" - his
training was as a "health officer" and he was called "doctor" by all (as all
the "health officers" were). From my M-I-Ls description, it sounds VERY much
like the NP's of today. This training was the common practice in those
days. There was no requirement for a bachelor's degree. He took a two year
training program to be a "doctor" (clearly without a "doctoral" degree) and
practiced as a family clinician. My understanding is that he attended one
of the ivy league programs. That was the going program of that time.
Nurses didn't have the formal and extensive training that they have today.
My undergrad nursing training was more than my grandfather-in-laws was to be
a doctor. I certainly have more "schooling" than my "doctor" ancestors.
Things continue to evolve. Technology creates the need for greater training.
Does the family NP or MD really need to go to school for yet another 3-4
years to be a good family provider? Just my 2 cents.
Anne
-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of npinfo-request at nurse.net
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 10:16 AM
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Subject: NPInfo Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam (Nbalkon at aol.com)
2. RE: Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam
(Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP)
3. JOB POSTING (Pat Dempsey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:45:53 EDT
From: Nbalkon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Message-ID: <d22.217e1dc8.3528f8b1 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 4/5/2008 10:55:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
meyerlm at chartermi.net writes:
Just my humble opinion here. I don't think I'm God's gift to NP practice,
but I did think that my FNP board exam was ridiculously easy. Many major
areas weren't even tested. I was done in under an hour. I really haven't
heard what other's have thought of the ANCC exam...
Nance writes: Interesting observation... This is entry into practice
exam.
Correct?
Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of Nursing
**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 12:49:22 -0400
From: "Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP"
<pegf at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam
To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
Message-ID: <BAY138-W1413EE801A7326DA69A50FDBF10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You wrote: Just my humble opinion here. I don't think I'm God's gift to NP
practice, > but I did think that my FNP board exam was ridiculously easy.
Many major > areas weren't even tested. I was done in under an hour. I
really haven't > heard what other's have thought of the ANCC exam...
Reply- I with my company's associates have helped more than 45,000 NPs
acheive certification. I have also spoken to hundreds if not thousands of
NPs who have failed certification over the years. You comment about it being
very easy speaks to your clinical knowledge. That is the comment of a well
prepared entry level NP. Congratulations! But remember that some of your
colleagues struggle tremendously to pass the exam. Dr. Margaret A.
Fitzgerald, DNP, FNP-BC, NP-C, FAANP, CSP President, Fitzgerald Health
Education Associates, Inc. 85 Flagship Drive North Andover, MA 01845-6154
978.794.8366 FHEA website www.fhea.com FHEA on line store www.fhea.biz
peg at fhea.com FNP, Adjunct Faculty, Family Practice Residency Greater
Lawrence (MA) Family Health Center, Inc.
> From: Nbalkon at aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:45:53 -0400> Subject:
> Re: [NPInfo] Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam> To: npinfo at nurse.net> > > > In a
> message dated 4/5/2008 10:55:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >
> meyerlm at chartermi.net writes:> > > > > > > Nance writes: Interesting
> observation... This is entry into practice exam. > Correct?> > > Nancy
> Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> Southern New York State
> Representative -- AANP> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook
> University School of Nursing> > > > **************Planning your summer
> road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. >
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv000300000
> 00016)> _______________________________________________> NPInfo
> mailing list> NPInfo at nurse.net>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
> *****************************
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:14:30 -0400
From: "Pat Dempsey" <dempseyp at expresscarecenter.com>
Subject: [NPInfo] JOB POSTING
To: <npinfo at nurse.net>
Message-ID: <001d01c89740$83f546d0$2e01a8c0 at alphaapr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
JOB POSTING:
ExpressCare walk-in medical offices is searching for a full time Physician's
Assistant or Family Nurse Practitioner for our Brick NJ location.
We offer an excellent compensation package, generous paid time off, 401k and
paid malpractice insurance.
Please contact:
Patricia Dempsey
(201) 247-9246
dempseyp at expresscarecenter.com
www.expresscarecenter.com <http://www.expresscarecenter.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of npinfo-request at nurse.net
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 7:31 AM
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Subject: NPInfo Digest, Vol 25, Issue 20
Send NPInfo mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. re: Questions regarding Legal Nurse consultants (CLNC)
(GIN11153 at aol.com)
2. Re: Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article
(Nbalkon at aol.com)
3. RE: Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article (Dena)
4. RE: Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article
(Deb Kiley)
5. Re: Re: CACC & BACC website.... (margienp at aol.com)
6. Re: Re: CACC & BACC website.... (margienp at aol.com)
7. RE: [NPInfo]: "It's called residency and .... experience"
(Sue Wiers)
8. RE: Re: WSJ Article (Sue Wiers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:52:38 EDT
From: GIN11153 at aol.com
Subject: [NPInfo] re: Questions regarding Legal Nurse consultants
(CLNC)
To: NPInfo at nurse.net
Message-ID: <bfd.2d15fbd4.35285f96 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Nancy,
Actually the CLNC initials are a trademark of only Vickie Milazzo's training
program-she's the pioneer of LNC education and I highly recommend hers. It's
pricey but more complete than other programs. The AALNC has a program also,
with modules. They have an LNCC certification exam that requires just about
5
years of full time work first.
The others are small companies that have jumped on the bandwagon to earn
some money-I personally don't know anyone who's done any of the little
companies, in the 12 years I have been an OB LNC.
Some people cannot afford any training and instead teach themselves the
curriculum from the AALNC core text that can be found on amazon.com and I
think
Barnes and Noble's website also.
One does NOT need to be 'certified' as an LNC-in fact for expert witness
work it's discouraged. There are some law firms that hire in-house LNCs and
want them to be certified, but most attorneys don't even understand what an
LNC
is and how they can help win their cases, let alone not knowing what a
certified LNC is. It's purely personal preference. It can be a really great
career-I know several earning over $100k a year from home as independent
consultants
who basically charge $75-100/hr. Experts charge more, usually $125-150/hr.
for chart review and double that for depositions and trials. An NP or PA
credential commands more pay.
Gail Neuman RNC CPHW
student midwife and student nurse practitioner
certified high risk OB/OB legal consultant
Perinatal Nurse Associates
801 N. Tustin Ave., Suite 305
Santa Ana, CA 92705
(714) 314-7070
(714) 838-1479 fax
"God doesn't require us to succeed; he only requires that you try."
--_Mother Teresa_
(http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-bio.html)
**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 01:30:31 EDT
From: Nbalkon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
article
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Message-ID: <cea.2e7613b9.35286877 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 4/4/2008 1:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dmittman at comcast.net writes:
Connie et al: How do we best show that NPs are comparable to docs?
This is one way... Although this is a strange way to do it- but
taking a test equivalent to the clinical section of the Med Boards is
an interesting concept
Dave, with all due respect.... I disagree with this idea....
Why must NPs and other APRNs for that matter "prove" themselves by taking
medical board equivalent? Why? Why? Why?
National Board Certification exists for NPs... First ask are these exams
valid and reliable predictors of competence for entry into practice? What
do
you think?
Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of Nursing
**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 22:48:03 -0700
From: "Dena" <galdena at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
article
To: "'NP Info'" <npinfo at nurse.net>
Message-ID: <02c601c896e0$9e5991d0$e68ab545 at Dena>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
As far as I'm concerned, I've already "proven" myself by passing the ANCC
certification exam back in 1994 and working in the role for the past 14 yrs.
I freely and quickly admit that I'm not a physician and have absolutely NO
desire to take an additional certification exam-- especially one based on a
medical board exam. Plus, since my DNP program contains NO clinical and I've
been out of school for quite some time, it would take a massive review that
I just don't feel like going through. It is pure BS and I don't plan to play
the game. My ANCC certification is good enough to practice as a NP in the
majority of states and that's all I plan to do at this point. Do NPs with a
PhD or DNSc have to take this exam and get re-certified... or are they
simply singling out DNP grads???
I mentioned to my medical director today about the test and he read the
article and was floored. He couldn't believe anyone would seriously consider
this... and he couldn't believe anyone would seriously try to make us. He
wasn't sure HE could even pass the test at this stage...
Dena Galler
-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of Nbalkon at aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:31 PM
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article
In a message dated 4/4/2008 1:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dmittman at comcast.net writes:
Connie et al: How do we best show that NPs are comparable to docs?
This is one way... Although this is a strange way to do it- but
taking a test equivalent to the clinical section of the Med Boards is
an interesting concept
Dave, with all due respect.... I disagree with this idea....
Why must NPs and other APRNs for that matter "prove" themselves by taking
medical board equivalent? Why? Why? Why?
National Board Certification exists for NPs... First ask are these exams
valid and reliable predictors of competence for entry into practice? What
do
you think?
Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of Nursing
**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
_______________________________________________
NPInfo mailing list
NPInfo at nurse.net
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
*****************************
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:58:46 -0800
From: Deb Kiley <DKiley at Alaska.net>
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
article
To: "'NP Info'" <npinfo at nurse.net>
Message-ID: <0cfb01c896e2$1c91c670$55b55350$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Excellent points Dena- While I have no desire, nor intention of taking this
exam, I wonder, has anyone asked how well the family docs or internists
would do if they took the ANCC or AANP exams?
They are talking about comprehensive care, and describing how they, for a
fee, should provide a medical home for all patients. When you read the ACP
white paper on the medical home, you get
a very nice description of a nursing model- with different descriptors, and
of course, reimbursable to physicians.
Deb Kiley FNP
-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of Dena
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:48 PM
To: 'NP Info'
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article
As far as I'm concerned, I've already "proven" myself by passing the ANCC
certification exam back in 1994 and working in the role for the past 14 yrs.
I freely and quickly admit that I'm not a physician and have absolutely NO
desire to take an additional certification exam-- especially one based on a
medical board exam. Plus, since my DNP program contains NO clinical and I've
been out of school for quite some time, it would take a massive review that
I just don't feel like going through. It is pure BS and I don't plan to play
the game. My ANCC certification is good enough to practice as a NP in the
majority of states and that's all I plan to do at this point. Do NPs with a
PhD or DNSc have to take this exam and get re-certified... or are they
simply singling out DNP grads???
I mentioned to my medical director today about the test and he read the
article and was floored. He couldn't believe anyone would seriously consider
this... and he couldn't believe anyone would seriously try to make us. He
wasn't sure HE could even pass the test at this stage...
Dena Galler
-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of Nbalkon at aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:31 PM
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article
In a message dated 4/4/2008 1:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dmittman at comcast.net writes:
Connie et al: How do we best show that NPs are comparable to docs?
This is one way... Although this is a strange way to do it- but
taking a test equivalent to the clinical section of the Med Boards is
an interesting concept
Dave, with all due respect.... I disagree with this idea....
Why must NPs and other APRNs for that matter "prove" themselves by taking
medical board equivalent? Why? Why? Why?
National Board Certification exists for NPs... First ask are these exams
valid and reliable predictors of competence for entry into practice? What
do
you think?
Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of Nursing
**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
_______________________________________________
NPInfo mailing list
NPInfo at nurse.net
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
*****************************
_______________________________________________
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*****************************
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:16:09 -0400
From: margienp at aol.com
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Message-ID: <8CA6525959DFE71-680-2A11 at webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Another group , that wants money!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: suernfnp at iwon.com <suernfnp at iwon.com>
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:05 pm
Subject: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
I've never heard of this organization before, and I've been a FNP since
1999.
Who are these people? And what gives them the right to give certification
exams?
Sue D in MI
--- On Fri 04/04, Nbalkon at aol.com < Nbalkon at aol.com > wrote:
From: Nbalkon at aol.com [mailto: Nbalkon at aol.com]
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:41:31 EDT
Subject: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
In a message dated 4/3/2008 10:09:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<br>dmittman at comcast.net writes:<br><br>CACC<br>The DNP degree is an
academic
program of study that provides formal <br>education for nurses who aspire
to a
complex advanced practice, with <br>broader scope and responsibility than
master's degree education <br>provides. Nurses with the clinical doctorate
are
distinguished by <br>their ability to provide sophisticated comprehensive
care
that is <br>central to improving an individual's health
care.<br><br>Founded
in 2000, the Council for the Advancement of Comprehensive <br>Care (CACC)
is
the leading academic organization for the promulgation <br>of doctoral
level
clinical nursing. The Council is a consortium of <br>distinguished
academic
and health policy leaders who are committed to <br>assuring high standards
of
doctoral nursing practice.<br><br>ALSO...<br> <br>In order to distinguish
DNP
graduates who have achieved a high level <br>of
competence in comprehensive care, CACC and the National Board of <br>Medical
Examiners (NBME) have agreed to offer a certification <br>examination that
will validate the advanced clinical competency of <br>these
graduates.<br><br><br><br>NANCE RESPONDS: Really????? The "leading"
organization. Am concerned <br>whenever such claims are made. CACC and
NBME
writing cert exam to "validate" <br>advanced clin compentency of DNP grads.
MY QUESTION: So... the current <br>national board exams and credentialing
structure has no merit????? Here is their <br>website:
_http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml_
<br>(http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml) <br> <br><br>Nancy Balkon, PhD,
ANP-C,
APRN-CS, NPP<br>Southern New York State Representative -- AANP<br>Clinical
Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of
Nursing<br><br><br><br>**************Planning
your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. <br>
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
<br>_______________________________________________<br>NPInfo
mailing
list<br>NPInfo at nurse.net<br>http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo<b
r>*****************************<br>
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:21:23 -0400
From: margienp at aol.com
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Message-ID: <8CA652650614BA7-680-2A27 at webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mary M also , had incorrect information in the article she was quoted.
In florida the professors are telling the DNP students that all np's that do
not have a DNP will not be able practice in the future.
As a prof I would think she would want to unite the nursing professiona,
seems like she is making?a division.
The schools just want their money, if they are so concerned about the
profession? why do they not teach for free!
-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Galler <galdena at sbcglobal.net>
To: peg at fhea.com; NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:56 pm
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
Hmmmm.. I wrote a response but can't find where it got sent. Sorry, but I
never
publically share in-depth Emails without the consent of the original author.
Dena Galler
"Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP" <pegf at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Dena, Could you share the contents of that email in detail? Where are you
going to school?
Dr. Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, FNP-BC, NP-C, FAANP, CSP President,
Fitzgerald
Health Education Associates, Inc. 85 Flagship Drive North Andover, MA
01845-6154
978.794.8366 FHEA website www.fhea.com FHEA on line store www.fhea.biz
peg at fhea.com
FNP, Adjunct Faculty, Family Practice Residency Greater Lawrence (MA) Family
Health Center, Inc.
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:18:44 -0700> From: galdena at sbcglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....> To: npinfo at nurse.net> > The Email
that
was sent to myself and my classmates from our DNP program stated:> > "this
certification was spearheaded by Dr. Mary Mundinger, Dean of Nursing at
Columbia
University in conjunction with the medical community to evaluate DNP
practice as
some level of physician practice." > > Perhaps we should all write to dear
Mary
and thank her for her support in advancing the cause of advanced nursing
practitioners???? Could she REALLY be behind this outrageous idea?> Dena
Galler>
> Nbalkon at aol.com wrote:> In a message dated 4/3/2008 10:09:09 PM
> Eastern
Daylight Time, > dmittman at comcast.net writes:> > CACC> The DNP degree is an
academic program of study that provides formal > education for nurses who
aspire
to a complex advanced practice, with > broader scope and responsibility than
master's degree education > provides. Nurses with
the clinical doctorate are distinguished by > their ability to provide
sophisticated comprehensive care that is > central to improving an
individual's
health care.> > Founded in 2000, the Council for the Advancement of
Comprehensive > Care (CACC) is the leading academic organization for the
promulgation > of doctoral level clinical nursing. The Council is a
consortium
of > distinguished academic and health policy leaders who are committed to >
assuring high standards of doctoral nursing practice.> > ALSO...> > In order
to
distinguish DNP graduates who have achieved a high level > of competence in
comprehensive care, CACC and the National Board of > Medical Examiners
(NBME)
have agreed to offer a certification > examination that will validate the
advanced clinical competency of > these graduates.> > > > NANCE RESPONDS:
Really????? The "leading" organization. Am concerned > whenever such claims
are
made. CACC and NBME writing cert exam to "validate" > advanced clin
compentency of DNP grads. MY QUESTION: So... the current > national board
exams
and credentialing structure has no merit????? Here is their > website:
_http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml_ >
(http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml) >
> > Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> Southern New York State
Representative -- AANP> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University
School of Nursing> > > > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check
out
AOL Travel Guides. >
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>
_______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list>
NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
*****************************> >
_______________________________________________>
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:24:40 +0000
From: Sue Wiers <sgwiers at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [NPInfo]: "It's called residency and .... experience"
To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
Message-ID: <BAY112-W4363375D609C529725A3D9A1F10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Based on Nancy's response, I would like the base expectation at the time of
entry to be raised.
> From: Nbalkon at aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:49:45 -0400> Subject:
> Re:
[NPInfo]: "It's called residency and .... experience"> To: npinfo at nurse.net>
> > > In a message dated 4/3/2008 9:45:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >
dmittman at advancedprac.com writes:> > Sue: It is called residency and if
s(he) is in practice longer, > experience.> Dave> > > Dave Mittman wrote
response above to a well written e-mail regarding > preceptorship and the
authors observation...> > Despite these efforts, I keep > > wondering how it
is all second nature to my collaborating doc and a > > challenge to me.
Bridging that gap is where I what I would hope a > > DNP would achieve - I
don't think that I am hearing that is the case.> > NANCE RESPONDS: Call it
residency or clinical practicum... skills are > learned there... Also, keep
in mind the levels of skill acquisition [novice to > expert] in any
field...and typical time it takes to be "competent".. 3 > years! For RNs who
enter NP practice with clin!
ical experience and BS in nsg the > learning curve for "competent" is
shortened.> > There is a big difference in compentency for all clinicians at
time of entry > in to practice vs. with experience. Outcomes and
expectations at end of > education/entry into practice are clearly defined.>
> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> Southern New York State
Representative -- AANP> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University
School of Nursing> > > > > **************Planning your summer road trip?
Check out AOL Travel Guides. >
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
> _______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list>
NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:30:44 +0000
From: Sue Wiers <sgwiers at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article
To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
Message-ID: <BAY112-W18CFB9440CC6DB98E46B22A1F10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Agreed. I remember driving around with FHEA cassette tapes after getting
out while looking for my first job. It helped bridge some gaps.
Sue
> From: lindamarie76 at msn.com> To: npinfo at nurse.net> Subject: RE:
> [NPInfo]
Re: WSJ Article> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:21:54 -0400> > > Just my two
cents. . . . please no flames. . . . > > The only cadaver experience I had
was with a cat in my A&P classes which were taken as a pre-req to nursing
school (how many years ago???). I have never taken a suture class (and I am
left handed). 12 lead EKGs I learned on my own. > > Muscoloskeltal was
grossly neglected in my program. I bought all of Peg Fitzgerald's tapes to
learn what I know.> > - Linda > From: meyerlm at chartermi.net> To:
npinfo at nurse.net> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> Date: Fri, 4 Apr
2008 11:02:10 -0500> > Dena and group--> > First, do you know how extremly
unusual it is to have a cadaver experience > at a community college? I took
my A&P in a research-based university > pre-med program and we had kitty
cats--never saw a cadaver. Medicals > schools DO require undergraduate
anatomy as well as med school anatomy o!
n > cadavers. My NP program did not require anatomy beyond our
undergraduate > course.> > My NP program did not cover 12 lead interp, as
"most of you already know > this". I never had 12 lead interp in my
undergraduate training, nor was I > ever expected as an RN to read 12-leads.
I had basic instruction on rhythm > strips in my ACLS courses.> > As for
suturing, I never had the opportunity to place a stitch in my NP > program,
but we did get a 4 hour workshop with a pig hock. My current role > as a
part time ED NP requires me to suture (sometimes complex wounds) 1-4 > times
per shift.> > I had no idea when I was in my NP program, exactly what areas
in would end > up working in during my career. I had no idea that I would
end up in an ED > or working in mental health as I also do part time. I
really think that our > clinical education needs a more standardized,
broader range. Because NP > students often have to find their own clinical
experiences, it is possible > for an NP !
student to choose their hours between a couple of "favorites" or > wha
tever is available. This wouldn't be terrible if we knew that the NP > would
only end up practicing in these specialties.> > Our NP programs are not
turning out equivalent, well-rounded students in > many cases, and a DNP
with more clinical content could help to solve some of > that problem--but
it won't as it stands. As for repitition, how many > statistics, research
utilization, and management classes does one need?> > Lisa> > ----- Original
Message ----- > From: "Dena" <galdena at sbcglobal.net>> To: "'NP Info'"
<npinfo at nurse.net>> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:15 AM> Subject: RE:
[NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> > > > Marilyn--> > A couple of questions about
your wish list.> >> > Shouldn't anatomy with a cadaver be done as an
undergraduate? Is there a > > reason that someone in a DNP program would
need to learn that stuff all > > over again? I had my cadaver experience at
the community college level-- > > and certainly wouldnt have wanted to have
repeated it now in my DNP > > !
program! How many anatomy classes do you think someone needs?> >> > In my
MSN NP program we had a whole day of EKGs (although I missed that > > day
<G>)-- being nurses already, most of us had some experience with > > reading
them. How long do you think an EKG class should be-- a whole > > semester?>
>> > Beyond basic suturing? Certainly not something everyone needs to
>> > know
(how > > many people actually do ANY suturing in their clinic practices?)
and dont > > you think advanced suturing (and more intense EKG experience)
could come > > in the one year residency if someone is interested in an ED,
plastics, or > > other specialty area where that knowledge is necessary?> >>
> "MS" as in Multiple Sclerosis or M/S as in musculoskeletal? Again, for
> > >
those interested, an ortho or sports medicine rotation during the > >
residency could cover all of this.> >> > The reason the NP programs are
being expanded in length is that "those in > > power above" now realize that
they cant te!
ach everything we need to know > > in 2 years. And with this added 1-2
yrs to the already 2+ yrs of the > > current MSN program, we have enough
hours of education that it becomes > > equivalent to other health care
"doctoral" programs (PT, PharmD, etc), > > therefore we certainly deserve
our "Dr" title as well for an extended > > program. This is the whole
rationale behind the DNP degree. You just cant > > cram any more clinical
content into the MSN NP programs-- you can only > > cram so much into 2
years.> > Dena Galler> >> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From:
npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf > > Of
Marilyn Dean> > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:12 AM> > To: NP Info> >
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> > Hi Dena,> > First I need to say
that I believe that the DNP is here to stay and I > > believe it can be a
positive change for Nurse Practitioners and those we > > care for.> > I
agree there is less to teach the MSN NP clinically, but programs that > >
are going to use the DNP for entry level !
need to look at the clinical > > content. Many of us have complained of
lack of several things in our > > programs.> > Here would be my clinical
wish list. I'm sure many could add to this. For > > the MSN NP, optional
opportunities for electives in clinical areas where > > the NP feels weak
would make the program more attractive and practical.> > A dedicated class
to EKG interp.> > More procedures (even simple ones like lesion removal).> >
Suturing beyond basic.> > More emphasis on MS evaluation.> > Anatomy class
with a cadaver.> > Anyone care to add to these?> > Marilyn Dean> >> >
-----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net
[mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On> > Behalf Of Dena> > Sent: Wednesday,
April 02, 2008 10:18 PM> > To: 'NP Info'> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ
Article> >> >> > The 18-24 mos MSN to DNP bridging programs don't
Article> >> >> > typically
have any > > clinical components as we received our clinical experience in
our MSN-NP > > programs. What else coul!
d they teach us about clinical stuff-- especially > > for those of us
who have many years of clinical experience already behind > > us? The new
3-4 year DNP NP programs (which will replace the 2 yr MSN NP > > programs)
will, of course, contain all the clinical experience that we > > received in
our MSN programs PLUS the additional "doctoral" level courses. > > To say
that the DNP is the "clinical" doctorate simply means it isn't > > research
based-- most DNP programs require a Capstone project (not a > > research
dissertation) based on evidence based practice to solve a > > clinical
problem and borrows from research already done by others. This > > separates
the DNP from the more research heavy DNSc and PhD. It was > > explained to
me that DNPs take the PhD and DNSc dissertations down from > > their high
shelves, blow off the dust, and actually put that re!> > search into
clinical practice. It's basically that simple. The DNP does > > NOT teach
the MSN prepared NP ANYTHING clinical at all. Again, what could > > they
teach us???> > Dena Galler>!
>> > -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net
[mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf > > Of Marilyn Dean> > Sent:
Wednesday, April 02, 2008 6:18 PM> > To: NP Info> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo]
Re: WSJ Article> >> > Review the program format for the DNP and see what you
think about > > clinical> > content. I have looked at one well known program
and found it lacking in> > additional clinical content. I was disappointed.>
> Marilyn Dean> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From:
npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On> > Behalf Of
David Mittman> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:26 PM> > To: NP Info> >
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> >> > Tracey: I comment vocally and
forcefully all the time on how the PA> > profession is not forwarding
itself.> > As everyone knows, I am not an NP, so I comment as a
professional> > colleague or cousin and as someone who has been involved
professional> > in
medical> > politics for many years.> > Reading the!
article, three things struck me. At the same time the> > Medical Soci
ety of the State of NY is attacking the scope of practice> > of PAs, do we
really need the "we are as good as doctors" spin this> > DNP article
espouses? It is the NPs of NY State and elsewhere (as the> > WALL STREET
JOURNAL is read nationally) who will get the push back on> > these comments
and I am not sure if they are said with the discretion> > the times may
dictate .> > Secondly, the assertion that DNPs (see chart) are only NPs who
go on> > for further education. That is just not true. As it is not just
NPs,> > one can not generalize about the graduates "being equivalent to> >
family physicians". I doubt a DNP midwife can practice primary care.> >
Lastly there is an underlying notion to ME that Master's prepared NPs> > are
less than DNPs. There are three levels of nurse talked about in> > the
article and chart. The reader comes away thinking these DNP> > graduates
will get more clinical training and that is also just not> > the case. There
I no studies I know of that sh!
ow that the DNP is> > clinically superior to any other NP in clinical
practice. That> > article strongly suggests that.> > I would be very
bothered by that assertion.> > OK, mini rant off now.> > Dave> >> >> > On
Apr 2, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Tracy Klein wrote:> >> >> The section of this
article that disturbed me was the phrase:> >> "equivalent to family
physicians". I would assume (and may still> >> assume, I suppose) that this
was a misquote. Unfortunately, I've> >> read the same language several times
from this particular> >> spokesperson. While it may be expeditious to assert
that the DNP in> >> New York is "more better" in order to gain regulatory
autonomy, it> >> does not do the rest of the profession any favors to
compare them,> >> once again, to a physician standard as the superior
standard and to> >> their practicing peers as the inferior standard.> >>> >>
As a disclaimer, I favor the DNP, but I care about how we talk> >> about it
and the terminology we use.> >>> >> Tra!
cy Klein, WHCNP,FNP> >> Portland, Oregon> >>> >> npinfo-request at nurse.
net wrote:> >> Send NPInfo mailing list submissions to> >> npinfo at nurse.net>
>>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> >>
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >> or, via email, send a
message with subject or body 'help' to> >> npinfo-request at nurse.net> >>> >>
You can reach the person managing the list at> >> npinfo-owner at nurse.net>
>>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>> >> specific>
>> than "Re: Contents of NPInfo digest..."> >>> >>> >> Today's Topics:>
>> >>> 1. MRSA Dr Phil Style (Priscilla Merrill)> >> 2. WSJ Health Blog:
>> "Dr.
Nurse" (SGrtWhite at aol.com)> >> 3. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (David
Mittman)> >> 4. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" ... comment
(Nbalkon at aol.com)> >> 5. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (Thiem)> >> 6. Re:
WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (David Mittman)> >> 7. Re: WSJ Health Blog:
"Dr. Nurse" (Kate Hammill)> >> 8. Wall Street Journal DNP article (David
Mittman)> >>> >>> >> ---------------!
-------------------------------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 1>
>> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 06:45:36 -0400> >> From: "Priscilla Merrill">
>> >>>
>> Subject: [NPInfo] MRSA Dr Phil Style> >> To: "'NP Clinical'" , "'NP
Info'"> >>> >> Message-ID: <00ec01c894ae$af456480$6700a8c0 at Priscilla>> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> >>> >> Did any of you see
Dr. Phil yesterday? It was on MRSA/ cSuperbugd> >> I think he did a good job
overall presenting most of the key points.> >> Have any of you seen, heard
of or used the uv light cCleanse Wandd?> >> Fascinating!> >> HYPERLINK
"HYPERLINK http://www.cleanselight.com> >> http://www.cleanselight.com"
HYPERLINK www.cleanselight.com> >> www.cleanselight.com (I see they sold out
quickly after his show )> >> He carried a diluted spray bottle of Lysol
wherever he goes (Dr.> >> Sears, no> >> Phil)> >> A little hype perhaps but
food for thought.> >> We donbt seem to have the MRSA problem as severely
here in NH as> >> other!
s.> >> Too darn cold for those bugs! Ibm finally seeing patches of gra
ss> >> through> >> the snow!> >>> >> HYPERLINK
http://drphil.com/shows/show/1048/> >> http://drphil.com/shows/show/1048/>
>>> >> Priscilla Merrill FNP> >>> >>> >>> >> No virus found in this
>>> >> outgoing
message.> >> Checked by AVG.> >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database:
269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:> >> 4/1/2008> >> 5:37 PM> >>> >>> >>
------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 2> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
10:09:42 EDT> >> From: SGrtWhite at aol.com> >> Subject: [NPInfo] WSJ Health
Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: npinfo at nurse.net> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >>> >>
_http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
mod=WSJBlog_> >>
(http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate
degrees and> >> nurse> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:>
>>> >> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use %~Dr. %
some> >> physicians>!
>> worry that patients could become confused. %~Nurses with an> >>
advanced degree are> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical
school, % says> >> Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the American
Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>> >> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse"
patients into thinking that> >> we are> >> physicians. Please!> >>> >>
Stephen> >>> >>> >>> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the
Stephen> >>> >>> >>> >> Pros.
Watch the video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >>
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>
video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> >>> >>
------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 3> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
10:26:47 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health
Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;> >> format=flowed> >>> >> When
you are a physician you feel that you are captain of the ship> >> (and in
many ways you are).> >> Others c!
ome along that SAY that they can do what you do........> >> They say t
hat you do not need to go to medical school to be a good> >>
clinician...............> >> And now some of these people want to be
referred to as "Doctor".> >> I fully understand how physicians would at a
minimum feel that> >> patients will be confused (and they will be) and at a
maximum, how> >> there will soon be no difference between others who did not
do it> >> "the right way" as they did which to them is the ONLY way one can>
>> do it.> >> I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to docs
generally.> >> That being said if you have a doctorate in a clinical area,
you> >> earned it and should use it.> >> Dave> >>> >> On Apr 2, 2008, at
10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote:> >>> >>>
_http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>
mod=WSJBlog_> >>>
(http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>
mod=WSJBlog)> >>>> >>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate
degrees and> >>> nurse> >>> practitioners. Gotta love the ph!
ysician comment:> >>>> >>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can
use cDr.d some> >>> physicians> >>> worry that patients could become
confused. cNurses with an advanced> >>> degree are> >>> not the same as
doctors who have been to medical school,d says> >>> Roger Moore,> >>>
incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>>> >>>
See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that> >>> we
are> >>> physicians. Please!> >>>> >>> Stephen> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >>> on
AOL> >>> Home.> >>>
AOL> >>> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?>
>>> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>>
_______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list>
>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>
------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 4> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
10:37:28 ED!
T> >> From: Nbalkon at aol.com> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog:
"Dr. Nurse" ... comment> >> To: npinfo at nurse.net> >> Message-ID:> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >>> >> Good Day....> >>> >> Am
responding to the quote below...> >>> >> My name tag clearly states Nancy
Balkon, PhD, NP> >>> >> It has been "the physicians" who have called me
"Dr".... and the> >> patients> >> who are often interested to know that
nurses earn advanced> >> degrees.... yes,> >> EVEN doctorates!> >>> >>
Sighhh.... the "medical school"/ "medical education" argument is> >> soooooo
old> >> and over-rated! Medical school is FOUR years post baccalaureate>
old> >> >>
education.... with.... "internship"/"residency" thereafter....> >>> >>
Comparing this to APRN education [didactic & clinical]...and...> >> years
in> >> practice..... isn't worth the bother....> >>> >> WHAT is impt. is
that we, as health professionals, should> >> "celebrate" and> >> "respect"
the uniqueness of one another, collaborate> >> professionally, and work> >>
together toward a common goal... i!
mproving health care in this> >> country! This> >> is the most profitable
expenditure of the energy wasted on turf> >> battles!> >>> >> "Also, since
these nurses with a doctorate can use %~Dr. % some> >> physicians>
>> worry that patients could become confused. %~Nurses with an> >>
>> advanced
degree> >> are> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical
degree> >> are> >> school,
% says> >> Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the American Society of
Anesthesiologists."> >>> >>
_http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
mod=WSJBlog_> >>
(http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> >> Southern New
York State Representative -- AANP> >> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony
Brook University School of Nursing> >>> >>> >>> >> **************Create a
Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >>
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >> video=1!
5&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> >>> >> -----------------------------
-> >>> >> Message: 5> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:38:41 -0700 (PDT)> >>
From: Thiem> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To:
NP Info> >> Message-ID: <690808.75384.qm at web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> >>> >> In Missouri this
restricted use of "Dr" has been suggested in> >> legislation by the
physician groups. Our (nurses) suggestion is> >> that anyone who uses "Dr"
must also identify what type of doctorate> >> they hold. This would include
all professions and would distribute> >> the responsibility of disclosure
evenly.> >>> >> Laura> >>> >> SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote:
_http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/> >>
say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_> >>
(http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate
degrees and> >> nurse> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician comment:>
>>> >> "Also, since these nurses with a doctor!
ate can use %~Dr. % some> >> physicians> >> worry that patients could
become confused. %~Nurses with an> >> advanced degree are> >>
not the same as doctors who have been to medical school, % says> >> Roger
Moore,> >> incoming president of the American Society of
Anesthesiologists."> >>> >> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients
into thinking that> >> we are> >> physicians. Please!> >>> >> Stephen> >>>
>>> >>> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the
video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >>
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>
video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>
_______________________________________________> >> NPInfo mailing list> >>
NPInfo at nurse.net> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>
*****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>
------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 6> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
11:13:56 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health
Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> !
To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WIND
OWS-1252; delsp=yes;> >> format=flowed> >>> >> Many states already have this
law (prohibiting the use of the term> >> "doctor" in a medical setting). It
will be interesting to see how> >> this all plays out.> >> Years ago, there
were no other doctorates that did what physicians> >> did, so no one
opposed.> >> Now there are. The mistake that will take years to correct, is
that> >> society made physician and doctor a word with the same
that> >> meaning.> >>
Generally still holds. When one screams "Is there a doctor in the> >>
house?" in a public place they are not asking for a PharmD.> >> And to deny
that it will confuse patients is to deny reality. AGAIN> >> that still is no
excuse for prohibiting us using it, only that we> >> should be sensative to
that confusion and possibly address it.> >> Dave> >> On Apr 2, 2008, at
10:38 AM, Thiem wrote:> >>> >>> In Missouri this restricted use of "Dr" has
been suggested in> >>> legislation by the physician groups. Our (nurses)
suggestion is> >>>!
that anyone who uses "Dr" must also identify what type of doctorate> >>>
they hold. This would include all professions and would distribute> >>> the
responsibility of disclosure evenly.> >>>> >>> Laura> >>>> >>>
SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote: _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/> >>>
say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_> >>>
(http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>
mod=WSJBlog)> >>>> >>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about doctorate
degrees and> >>> nurse> >>> practitioners. Gotta love the physician
comment:> >>>> >>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use cDr.d
some> >>> physicians> >>> worry that patients could become confused.
some> >>> physicians> >>> cNurses
with an advanced> >>> degree are> >>> not the same as doctors who have been
to medical school,d says> >>> Roger Moore,> >>> incoming president of the
American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>>> >>> See? Our goal is to try
and "confuse" patients into thinking that> >>> we are> >>> physicians. P!
lease!> >>>> >>> Stephen> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> **************Create a Ho
me Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >>> on AOL> >>> Home.> >>>
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>>
video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>>
_______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list>
>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>> *****************************> >>>> >>>
_______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list>
>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>
------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 7> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
08:15:39 -0700 (PDT)> >> From: Kate Hammill> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ
Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:
<729375.57014.qm at web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1> >>> >> The proper name for them is "physician". "Doctor"
is> >> a broader term encompassing the Doctor of Philosophy,> >!
> among other things, and is owned and used properly by> >> thousand who
are non-physicians. Physicians have no> >> leg to stand on that this term
belongs to only them> >> and we should not let them get away with it--I
never> >> use the term "doctor" to describe them--always> >> "physician"
(and usually add "heal thyself" as an> >> aside.) Boy, its' a full time job,
isn't it, just> >> keeping up with the dishonesty and disingenuousness of>
>> this gang.> >> Kate Hammill> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> --- David
>> Mittman
wrote:> >>> >>> When you are a physician you feel that you are> >>> captain
of the ship> >>> (and in many ways you are).> >>> Others come along that SAY
that they can do what you> >>> do........> >>> They say that you do not need
to go to medical> >>> school to be a good> >>> clinician...............> >>>
And now some of these people want to be referred to> >>> as "Doctor".> >>> I
fully understand how physicians would at a minimum> >>> feel that> >>>
patients wil!
l be confused (and they will be) and at> >>> a maximum, how> >>> there
will soon be no difference between others who> >>> did not do it> >>> "the
right way" as they did which to them is the> >>> ONLY way one can do it.>
>>> I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to> >>> docs
>>> generally.> That being said if you have a doctorate in a> >>>
>>> clinical area, you> earned it and should use it.> >>> Dave> >>>> >>>
>>> On Apr 2, 2008, at
10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com> >>> wrote:> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>
_http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>> >>>>
mod=WSJBlog_> >>>>> >>>> >>
(http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>> >>>>
mod=WSJBlog)> >>>>> >>>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about> >>>
doctorate degrees and> >>>> nurse> >>>> practitioners. Gotta love the
physician comment:> >>>>> >>>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate
can use> >>> cDr.d some> >>>> physicians> >>>> worry that patients could
become confused. cNurses> >>> with an advanced> >>>> degree are> >>>> not
the same as d!
octors who have been to medical> >>> school,d says> >>>> Roger Moore,> >>>>
incoming president of the American Society of> >>> Anesthesiologists.">
>>>>> >>>> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients> >>> into
>>>>> >>>> thinking
that> >>>> we are> >>>> physicians. Please!> >>>>> >>>> Stephen> >>>>>
that> >>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros.> >>> Watch
>>>>> >>>> the
video> >>>> on AOL> >>>> Home.> >>>>> >>>> >>
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>>> >>>>
video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>>>
_______________________________________________> >>>> NPInfo mailing list>
>>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>>
>>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>>> *****************************> >>>> >>>> >>>
_______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing list>
>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>> *****************************> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>
__________________________________________________!
____________________> >> ______________> >> You rock. That's why Block
buster's offering you one month of> >> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.>
>> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> >>> >>> >>
------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 8> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
11:26:35 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: [NPInfo] Wall Street
Journal DNP article> >> To: ACC Circle Circle , NPinfo> >> , PA Forum> >>>
>> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes;
format=flowed> >>> >> Keeping the argument aside on whether one needs this
or not- I know> >> that not just NPs are able to get the DNP and that in
many programs> >> there is little advanced CLINICAL training (ie. clinical
residency).> >> This article seems to suggest something very different. It
is one> >> institutions view of the DNP not what is fully happening.> >>
Dave> >>> >>> >> Making Room> >> For 'Dr. Nurse'> >> April 2, 2008; Page
Dave> >>> >>> >> D1>
>> As the shortage of primary-care physicians mounts, the nursing> >>
profession is offering a possible s!
olution: the "doctor nurse."> >>> >> More than 200 nursing schools have
established or plan to launch> >> doctorate of nursing practice programs to
equip graduates with skills> >> the schools say are equivalent to
primary-care physicians. The two-> >> year programs, including a one-year
residency, create a "hybrid> >> practitioner" with more skills, knowledge
and training than a nurse> >> practitioner with a master's degree, says Mary
Mundinger, dean of New> >> York's Columbia University School of Nursing. She
says DNPs are being> >> trained to have more focus than doctors on
coordinating care among> >> many specialists and health-care settings.> >>>
>>> >> @9> >>> >> Dawn Bucher, DNP, and child patient at Ivanhoe Clinic
>>> >> in
Ivanhoe,> >> Minn.> >> To establish a national standard for doctors of
nursing practice, the> >> non-profit Council for the Advancement of
Comprehensive Care plans to> >> announce Wednesday that the National Board
of Medical Examiners has> >> agreed to !
develop a voluntary DNP certification exam based on the> >> same test
physicians take to qualify for a medical license. The board> >> will begin
administering the exam this fall. By 2015, the American> >> Association of
Colleges of Nursing aims to make the doctoral degree> >> the standard for
all new advanced practice nurses, including nurse> >> practitioners.> >>> >>
But some physician groups warn that blurring the line between doctors> >>
and nurses will confuse patients and jeopardize care. Nurses with> >>
doctorates use DrNP after their name, and can also use the> >> designation
Dr. as a title. Physician groups want DNPs to be required> >> to clearly
state to patients and prospective students that they are> >> not medical
doctors. "Nurses with an advanced degree are not the same> >> as doctors who
have been to medical school," says Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of
the American Society of Anesthesiologists.> >>> >> "With four years of
medical school and three years of residency> >> training, physicians'
understanding of complex medica!
l issues and> >> clinical expertise is unequaled," adds James King,
president of the> >> American Academy of Family Physicians. While nurses
with advanced> >> degrees play an important role in delivering care, Dr.
King says they> >> should work as part of a physician-directed team.> >>> >>
Although there are no precise statistics on the number of nurses with> >>
doctorates because the programs are relatively new, there are about> >>
1,874 DNP students currently enrolled in programs nationwide, up from> >>
862 students in 2006, according to the American Association of> >> Colleges
of Nursing.> >>> >> Nurses have increasingly been moving into more
specialized and> >> advanced roles over the past few decades.
Advanced-practice nurses> >> include specialists in fields such as nurse
midwives and nurse> >> anesthetists, and there are now more than 125,000
nurse practitioners> >> in the U.S. Nurse practitioners in some states are
required to work> >> with or be supervised by physi!
cians, but often have independent> >> practices in family medicine, ad
ult care, pediatrics and oncology.> >>> >> A study led by Columbia's Dr.
Mundinger and published in the Journal> >> of the American Medical
Association in 2000 showed comparable patient> >> outcomes in patients
randomly assigned to nurse practitioners and> >> primary-care physicians.>
>>> >> Nurse practitioners fear the doctoral programs might be raising
>>> >> the>
>> bar too high for their profession. The American Academy of Nurse> >>
Practitioners says it supports access to a higher educational degree> >> for
nurses, but wants to ensure that members won't be marginalized or> >>
required to go back to school for a costly advanced degree. Nurse> >>
practitioners can write prescriptions, are eligible for Medicare and> >>
Medicaid reimbursement, and often act as the primary health-care> >>
provider for their patients.> >>> >> "Nurse practitioners with master's
degrees are already filling the> >> primary-care shortages and providing
quality, cost-effective care,> >> many times in pla!
ces that physicians are unwilling to practice," says> >> Wendy Vogel, a
nurse practitioner specializing in oncology at Blue> >>> >> === message
truncated ===> >> _______________________________________________> >> NPInfo
mailing list> >> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>
*****************************> >> >> >
_______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
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_______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
*****************************> >> >> >
_______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
*****************************> >> >> >
_______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing list> >
NPInfo at nurse.net> >!
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> > *******************
**********> >> >> > _______________________________________________> >
NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> >
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
*****************************> > > >
_______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list>
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