[NPInfo] RE: NPInfo Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23
David Mittman
dmittman at comcast.net
Sat Apr 5 13:44:23 PDT 2008
Anne: I worked with 2 docs when I started who went to Middlesex
Community College for their MDs. Two year program. They said my PA
program was like theirs. During or just before WWII.
Dave
On Apr 5, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Anne Chamberlain wrote:
> Another thought on NP exams & comparing with MD exams... Do MD
> candidates
> not have a harder time with *their* exams more because they have
> not have
> had as much exposure to medical care, etc. (undergrad degree is not in
> nursing, medical care, etc.) and NP's have been practicing as
> nurses already
> (sometimes for decades). It seems our NP test would *feel* easier
> because we
> already have SO MUCH experience and knowledge (part of why NP programs
> started in the first place to fill a need for medical care without
> requiring
> nurses who already are clearly qualified to be clinicians to
> practice). A
> smart new doc knows to trust his seasoned nurse... When I've
> picked up MCAD
> prep books, they feel the same as the NP prep stuff and I don't
> feel that
> they are any harder necessarily. I'm not saying that we are the
> same (NPs
> and MD's), but there are parallels. It seems to me that the
> differentiation
> occurs when MD's do their specialties.
>
> My grandfather-in-law was a MD/surgeon. Back then the training was
> a BA or
> BS plus 2 years in medical training. His father was a "doctor" - his
> training was as a "health officer" and he was called "doctor" by
> all (as all
> the "health officers" were). From my M-I-Ls description, it sounds
> VERY much
> like the NP's of today. This training was the common practice in
> those
> days. There was no requirement for a bachelor's degree. He took a
> two year
> training program to be a "doctor" (clearly without a "doctoral"
> degree) and
> practiced as a family clinician. My understanding is that he
> attended one
> of the ivy league programs. That was the going program of that time.
> Nurses didn't have the formal and extensive training that they have
> today.
> My undergrad nursing training was more than my grandfather-in-laws
> was to be
> a doctor. I certainly have more "schooling" than my "doctor"
> ancestors.
> Things continue to evolve. Technology creates the need for greater
> training.
> Does the family NP or MD really need to go to school for yet
> another 3-4
> years to be a good family provider? Just my 2 cents.
>
> Anne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf
> Of npinfo-request at nurse.net
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 10:16 AM
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
> Subject: NPInfo Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23
>
>
> Send NPInfo mailing list submissions to
> npinfo at nurse.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> npinfo-request at nurse.net
>
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> npinfo-owner at nurse.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than
> "Re: Contents of NPInfo digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam (Nbalkon at aol.com)
> 2. RE: Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam
> (Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP)
> 3. JOB POSTING (Pat Dempsey)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:45:53 EDT
> From: Nbalkon at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
> Message-ID: <d22.217e1dc8.3528f8b1 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/5/2008 10:55:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> meyerlm at chartermi.net writes:
>
> Just my humble opinion here. I don't think I'm God's gift to NP
> practice,
>
> but I did think that my FNP board exam was ridiculously easy.
> Many major
> areas weren't even tested. I was done in under an hour. I really
> haven't
> heard what other's have thought of the ANCC exam...
>
>
>
>
> Nance writes: Interesting observation... This is entry into
> practice
> exam.
> Correct?
>
>
> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
> Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of
> Nursing
>
>
>
> **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
> Guides.
>
>
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 12:49:22 -0400
> From: "Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP"
> <pegf at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam
> To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
> Message-ID: <BAY138-W1413EE801A7326DA69A50FDBF10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> You wrote: Just my humble opinion here. I don't think I'm God's
> gift to NP
> practice, > but I did think that my FNP board exam was ridiculously
> easy.
> Many major > areas weren't even tested. I was done in under an hour. I
> really haven't > heard what other's have thought of the ANCC exam...
>
> Reply- I with my company's associates have helped more than 45,000 NPs
> acheive certification. I have also spoken to hundreds if not
> thousands of
> NPs who have failed certification over the years. You comment about
> it being
> very easy speaks to your clinical knowledge. That is the comment of
> a well
> prepared entry level NP. Congratulations! But remember that some of
> your
> colleagues struggle tremendously to pass the exam. Dr. Margaret A.
> Fitzgerald, DNP, FNP-BC, NP-C, FAANP, CSP President, Fitzgerald Health
> Education Associates, Inc. 85 Flagship Drive North Andover, MA
> 01845-6154
> 978.794.8366 FHEA website www.fhea.com FHEA on line store www.fhea.biz
> peg at fhea.com FNP, Adjunct Faculty, Family Practice Residency Greater
> Lawrence (MA) Family Health Center, Inc.
>
>> From: Nbalkon at aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:45:53 -0400> Subject:
>> Re: [NPInfo] Re: ANCC, FNP cert exam> To: npinfo at nurse.net> > > >
>> In a
>> message dated 4/5/2008 10:55:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >
>> meyerlm at chartermi.net writes:> > > > > > > Nance writes: Interesting
>> observation... This is entry into practice exam. > Correct?> > >
>> Nancy
>> Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> Southern New York State
>> Representative -- AANP> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook
>> University School of Nursing> > > > **************Planning your
>> summer
>> road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. >
>> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
>> ncid=aoltrv000300000
>> 00016)> _______________________________________________> NPInfo
>> mailing list> NPInfo at nurse.net>
>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>> *****************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:14:30 -0400
> From: "Pat Dempsey" <dempseyp at expresscarecenter.com>
> Subject: [NPInfo] JOB POSTING
> To: <npinfo at nurse.net>
> Message-ID: <001d01c89740$83f546d0$2e01a8c0 at alphaapr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> JOB POSTING:
>
>
>
> ExpressCare walk-in medical offices is searching for a full time
> Physician's
> Assistant or Family Nurse Practitioner for our Brick NJ location.
>
> We offer an excellent compensation package, generous paid time off,
> 401k and
> paid malpractice insurance.
>
> Please contact:
>
> Patricia Dempsey
>
> (201) 247-9246
>
> dempseyp at expresscarecenter.com
>
> www.expresscarecenter.com <http://www.expresscarecenter.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf
> Of npinfo-request at nurse.net
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 7:31 AM
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
> Subject: NPInfo Digest, Vol 25, Issue 20
>
>
>
> Send NPInfo mailing list submissions to
>
> npinfo at nurse.net
>
>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>
> npinfo-request at nurse.net
>
>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>
> npinfo-owner at nurse.net
>
>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>
> than "Re: Contents of NPInfo digest..."
>
>
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>
>
> 1. re: Questions regarding Legal Nurse consultants (CLNC)
>
> (GIN11153 at aol.com)
>
> 2. Re: Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article
>
> (Nbalkon at aol.com)
>
> 3. RE: Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article (Dena)
>
> 4. RE: Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP article
>
> (Deb Kiley)
>
> 5. Re: Re: CACC & BACC website.... (margienp at aol.com)
>
> 6. Re: Re: CACC & BACC website.... (margienp at aol.com)
>
> 7. RE: [NPInfo]: "It's called residency and .... experience"
>
> (Sue Wiers)
>
> 8. RE: Re: WSJ Article (Sue Wiers)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 1
>
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:52:38 EDT
>
> From: GIN11153 at aol.com
>
> Subject: [NPInfo] re: Questions regarding Legal Nurse consultants
>
> (CLNC)
>
> To: NPInfo at nurse.net
>
> Message-ID: <bfd.2d15fbd4.35285f96 at aol.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
> Nancy,
>
>
>
> Actually the CLNC initials are a trademark of only Vickie Milazzo's
> training
>
>
> program-she's the pioneer of LNC education and I highly recommend
> hers. It's
>
>
> pricey but more complete than other programs. The AALNC has a
> program also,
>
>
> with modules. They have an LNCC certification exam that requires
> just about
> 5
>
> years of full time work first.
>
>
>
> The others are small companies that have jumped on the bandwagon to
> earn
>
> some money-I personally don't know anyone who's done any of the little
>
> companies, in the 12 years I have been an OB LNC.
>
>
>
> Some people cannot afford any training and instead teach themselves
> the
>
> curriculum from the AALNC core text that can be found on amazon.com
> and I
> think
>
> Barnes and Noble's website also.
>
>
>
> One does NOT need to be 'certified' as an LNC-in fact for expert
> witness
>
> work it's discouraged. There are some law firms that hire in-house
> LNCs and
>
>
> want them to be certified, but most attorneys don't even understand
> what an
> LNC
>
> is and how they can help win their cases, let alone not knowing what a
>
> certified LNC is. It's purely personal preference. It can be a
> really great
>
>
> career-I know several earning over $100k a year from home as
> independent
> consultants
>
> who basically charge $75-100/hr. Experts charge more, usually
> $125-150/hr.
>
> for chart review and double that for depositions and trials. An NP
> or PA
>
> credential commands more pay.
>
>
>
> Gail Neuman RNC CPHW
>
> student midwife and student nurse practitioner
>
> certified high risk OB/OB legal consultant
>
> Perinatal Nurse Associates
>
> 801 N. Tustin Ave., Suite 305
>
> Santa Ana, CA 92705
>
> (714) 314-7070
>
> (714) 838-1479 fax
>
>
>
> "God doesn't require us to succeed; he only requires that you try."
>
> --_Mother Teresa_
>
> (http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-
> bio.html)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
> Guides.
>
>
>
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 2
>
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 01:30:31 EDT
>
> From: Nbalkon at aol.com
>
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
>
> article
>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>
> Message-ID: <cea.2e7613b9.35286877 at aol.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/4/2008 1:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>
> dmittman at comcast.net writes:
>
>
>
> Connie et al: How do we best show that NPs are comparable to docs?
>
> This is one way... Although this is a strange way to do it- but
>
> taking a test equivalent to the clinical section of the Med Boards is
>
> an interesting concept
>
>
>
> Dave, with all due respect.... I disagree with this idea....
>
> Why must NPs and other APRNs for that matter "prove" themselves by
> taking
>
> medical board equivalent? Why? Why? Why?
>
>
>
> National Board Certification exists for NPs... First ask are
> these exams
>
> valid and reliable predictors of competence for entry into
> practice? What
> do
>
> you think?
>
>
>
>
>
> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
>
> Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
>
> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of
> Nursing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
> Guides.
>
>
>
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 3
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 22:48:03 -0700
>
> From: "Dena" <galdena at sbcglobal.net>
>
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
>
> article
>
> To: "'NP Info'" <npinfo at nurse.net>
>
> Message-ID: <02c601c896e0$9e5991d0$e68ab545 at Dena>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> As far as I'm concerned, I've already "proven" myself by passing
> the ANCC
>
> certification exam back in 1994 and working in the role for the
> past 14 yrs.
>
> I freely and quickly admit that I'm not a physician and have
> absolutely NO
>
> desire to take an additional certification exam-- especially one
> based on a
>
> medical board exam. Plus, since my DNP program contains NO clinical
> and I've
>
> been out of school for quite some time, it would take a massive
> review that
>
> I just don't feel like going through. It is pure BS and I don't
> plan to play
>
> the game. My ANCC certification is good enough to practice as a NP
> in the
>
> majority of states and that's all I plan to do at this point. Do
> NPs with a
>
> PhD or DNSc have to take this exam and get re-certified... or are they
>
> simply singling out DNP grads???
>
>
>
> I mentioned to my medical director today about the test and he read
> the
>
> article and was floored. He couldn't believe anyone would seriously
> consider
>
> this... and he couldn't believe anyone would seriously try to make
> us. He
>
> wasn't sure HE could even pass the test at this stage...
>
> Dena Galler
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf
>
> Of Nbalkon at aol.com
>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:31 PM
>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
> article
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/4/2008 1:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>
> dmittman at comcast.net writes:
>
>
>
> Connie et al: How do we best show that NPs are comparable to docs?
>
> This is one way... Although this is a strange way to do it- but
>
> taking a test equivalent to the clinical section of the Med Boards is
>
> an interesting concept
>
>
>
> Dave, with all due respect.... I disagree with this idea....
>
> Why must NPs and other APRNs for that matter "prove" themselves by
> taking
>
> medical board equivalent? Why? Why? Why?
>
>
>
> National Board Certification exists for NPs... First ask are
> these exams
>
> valid and reliable predictors of competence for entry into
> practice? What
>
> do
>
> you think?
>
>
>
>
>
> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
>
> Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
>
> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of
> Nursing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
> Guides.
>
>
>
>
>
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> NPInfo mailing list
>
> NPInfo at nurse.net
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 4
>
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:58:46 -0800
>
> From: Deb Kiley <DKiley at Alaska.net>
>
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
>
> article
>
> To: "'NP Info'" <npinfo at nurse.net>
>
> Message-ID: <0cfb01c896e2$1c91c670$55b55350$@net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> Excellent points Dena- While I have no desire, nor intention of
> taking this
>
> exam, I wonder, has anyone asked how well the family docs or
> internists
>
> would do if they took the ANCC or AANP exams?
>
> They are talking about comprehensive care, and describing how they,
> for a
>
> fee, should provide a medical home for all patients. When you read
> the ACP
>
> white paper on the medical home, you get
>
> a very nice description of a nursing model- with different
> descriptors, and
>
> of course, reimbursable to physicians.
>
> Deb Kiley FNP
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf
>
> Of Dena
>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:48 PM
>
> To: 'NP Info'
>
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
> article
>
>
>
> As far as I'm concerned, I've already "proven" myself by passing
> the ANCC
>
> certification exam back in 1994 and working in the role for the
> past 14 yrs.
>
> I freely and quickly admit that I'm not a physician and have
> absolutely NO
>
> desire to take an additional certification exam-- especially one
> based on a
>
> medical board exam. Plus, since my DNP program contains NO clinical
> and I've
>
> been out of school for quite some time, it would take a massive
> review that
>
> I just don't feel like going through. It is pure BS and I don't
> plan to play
>
> the game. My ANCC certification is good enough to practice as a NP
> in the
>
> majority of states and that's all I plan to do at this point. Do
> NPs with a
>
> PhD or DNSc have to take this exam and get re-certified... or are they
>
> simply singling out DNP grads???
>
>
>
> I mentioned to my medical director today about the test and he read
> the
>
> article and was floored. He couldn't believe anyone would seriously
> consider
>
> this... and he couldn't believe anyone would seriously try to make
> us. He
>
> wasn't sure HE could even pass the test at this stage...
>
> Dena Galler
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf
>
> Of Nbalkon at aol.com
>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:31 PM
>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: [ACC-Circle] Fwd: Wall Street Journal DNP
> article
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/4/2008 1:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>
> dmittman at comcast.net writes:
>
>
>
> Connie et al: How do we best show that NPs are comparable to docs?
>
> This is one way... Although this is a strange way to do it- but
>
> taking a test equivalent to the clinical section of the Med Boards is
>
> an interesting concept
>
>
>
> Dave, with all due respect.... I disagree with this idea....
>
> Why must NPs and other APRNs for that matter "prove" themselves by
> taking
>
> medical board equivalent? Why? Why? Why?
>
>
>
> National Board Certification exists for NPs... First ask are
> these exams
>
> valid and reliable predictors of competence for entry into
> practice? What
>
> do
>
> you think?
>
>
>
>
>
> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP
>
> Southern New York State Representative -- AANP
>
> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of
> Nursing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
> Guides.
>
>
>
>
>
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> NPInfo mailing list
>
> NPInfo at nurse.net
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> NPInfo mailing list
>
> NPInfo at nurse.net
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 5
>
> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:16:09 -0400
>
> From: margienp at aol.com
>
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>
> Message-ID: <8CA6525959DFE71-680-2A11 at webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
>
>
> Another group , that wants money!!!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: suernfnp at iwon.com <suernfnp at iwon.com>
>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>
> Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:05 pm
>
> Subject: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've never heard of this organization before, and I've been a FNP
> since
> 1999.
>
> Who are these people? And what gives them the right to give
> certification
> exams?
>
>
>
> Sue D in MI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri 04/04, Nbalkon at aol.com < Nbalkon at aol.com > wrote:
>
> From: Nbalkon at aol.com [mailto: Nbalkon at aol.com]
>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:41:31 EDT
>
> Subject: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/3/2008 10:09:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>
> <br>dmittman at comcast.net writes:<br><br>CACC<br>The DNP degree is an
> academic
>
> program of study that provides formal <br>education for nurses
> who aspire
> to a
>
> complex advanced practice, with <br>broader scope and
> responsibility than
>
> master's degree education <br>provides. Nurses with the clinical
> doctorate
> are
>
> distinguished by <br>their ability to provide sophisticated
> comprehensive
> care
>
> that is <br>central to improving an individual's health
> care.<br><br>Founded
>
> in 2000, the Council for the Advancement of Comprehensive
> <br>Care (CACC)
> is
>
> the leading academic organization for the promulgation <br>of
> doctoral
> level
>
> clinical nursing. The Council is a consortium of <br>distinguished
> academic
>
> and health policy leaders who are committed to <br>assuring high
> standards
> of
>
> doctoral nursing practice.<br><br>ALSO...<br> <br>In order to
> distinguish
> DNP
>
> graduates who have achieved a high level <br>of
>
> competence in comprehensive care, CACC and the National Board of
> <br>Medical
>
>
> Examiners (NBME) have agreed to offer a certification
> <br>examination that
>
>
> will validate the advanced clinical competency of <br>these
>
> graduates.<br><br><br><br>NANCE RESPONDS: Really????? The "leading"
>
> organization. Am concerned <br>whenever such claims are made.
> CACC and
> NBME
>
> writing cert exam to "validate" <br>advanced clin compentency of
> DNP grads.
>
>
> MY QUESTION: So... the current <br>national board exams and
> credentialing
>
>
> structure has no merit????? Here is their <br>website:
> _http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml_
>
> <br>(http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml) <br> <br><br>Nancy
> Balkon, PhD,
> ANP-C,
>
> APRN-CS, NPP<br>Southern New York State Representative --
> AANP<br>Clinical
>
> Associate Professor, Stony Brook University School of
> Nursing<br><br><br><br>**************Planning
>
> your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. <br>
>
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
> <br>_______________________________________________<br>NPInfo
>
> mailing
> list<br>NPInfo at nurse.net<br>http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/
> npinfo<b
> r>*****************************<br>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> NPInfo mailing list
>
> NPInfo at nurse.net
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 6
>
> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:21:23 -0400
>
> From: margienp at aol.com
>
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
>
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>
> Message-ID: <8CA652650614BA7-680-2A27 at webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> Mary M also , had incorrect information in the article she was quoted.
>
> In florida the professors are telling the DNP students that all
> np's that do
> not have a DNP will not be able practice in the future.
>
> As a prof I would think she would want to unite the nursing
> professiona,
> seems like she is making?a division.
>
> The schools just want their money, if they are so concerned about the
> profession? why do they not teach for free!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Diana Galler <galdena at sbcglobal.net>
>
> To: peg at fhea.com; NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
>
> Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:56 pm
>
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hmmmm.. I wrote a response but can't find where it got sent. Sorry,
> but I
> never
>
> publically share in-depth Emails without the consent of the
> original author.
>
> Dena Galler
>
>
>
> "Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP"
> <pegf at hotmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Dena, Could you share the contents of that email in detail? Where
> are you
>
> going to school?
>
> Dr. Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, FNP-BC, NP-C, FAANP, CSP President,
> Fitzgerald
>
> Health Education Associates, Inc. 85 Flagship Drive North Andover, MA
> 01845-6154
>
> 978.794.8366 FHEA website www.fhea.com FHEA on line store www.fhea.biz
>
> peg at fhea.com
>
> FNP, Adjunct Faculty, Family Practice Residency Greater Lawrence
> (MA) Family
>
>
> Health Center, Inc.
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:18:44 -0700> From: galdena at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject:
>
> Re: [NPInfo] Re: CACC & BACC website....> To: npinfo at nurse.net> >
> The Email
> that
>
> was sent to myself and my classmates from our DNP program stated:>
> > "this
>
> certification was spearheaded by Dr. Mary Mundinger, Dean of
> Nursing at
> Columbia
>
> University in conjunction with the medical community to evaluate DNP
> practice as
>
> some level of physician practice." > > Perhaps we should all write
> to dear
> Mary
>
> and thank her for her support in advancing the cause of advanced
> nursing
>
> practitioners???? Could she REALLY be behind this outrageous idea?>
> Dena
> Galler>
>
>> Nbalkon at aol.com wrote:> In a message dated 4/3/2008 10:09:09 PM
>> Eastern
>
> Daylight Time, > dmittman at comcast.net writes:> > CACC> The DNP
> degree is an
>
> academic program of study that provides formal > education for
> nurses who
> aspire
>
> to a complex advanced practice, with > broader scope and
> responsibility than
>
>
> master's degree education > provides. Nurses with
>
> the clinical doctorate are distinguished by > their ability to
> provide
>
> sophisticated comprehensive care that is > central to improving an
> individual's
>
> health care.> > Founded in 2000, the Council for the Advancement of
>
> Comprehensive > Care (CACC) is the leading academic organization
> for the
>
> promulgation > of doctoral level clinical nursing. The Council is a
> consortium
>
> of > distinguished academic and health policy leaders who are
> committed to >
>
>
> assuring high standards of doctoral nursing practice.> > ALSO...> >
> In order
> to
>
> distinguish DNP graduates who have achieved a high level > of
> competence in
>
> comprehensive care, CACC and the National Board of > Medical Examiners
> (NBME)
>
> have agreed to offer a certification > examination that will
> validate the
>
> advanced clinical competency of > these graduates.> > > > NANCE
> RESPONDS:
>
> Really????? The "leading" organization. Am concerned > whenever
> such claims
> are
>
> made. CACC and NBME writing cert exam to "validate" > advanced clin
>
> compentency of DNP grads. MY QUESTION: So... the current >
> national board
> exams
>
> and credentialing structure has no merit????? Here is their > website:
>
> _http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml_ >
> (http://abcc.dnpcert.org/about.shtml) >
>
>>> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> Southern New York State
>
> Representative -- AANP> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook
> University
>
>
> School of Nursing> > > > **************Planning your summer road
> trip? Check
> out
>
> AOL Travel Guides. >
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list>
>
> NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>
> *****************************> >
> _______________________________________________>
>
> NPInfo mailing list> NPInfo at nurse.net>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>
> *****************************_________________________________________
> ______
>
> NPInfo mailing list
>
> NPInfo at nurse.net
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> NPInfo mailing list
>
> NPInfo at nurse.net
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 7
>
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:24:40 +0000
>
> From: Sue Wiers <sgwiers at hotmail.com>
>
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo]: "It's called residency and .... experience"
>
> To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
>
> Message-ID: <BAY112-W4363375D609C529725A3D9A1F10 at phx.gbl>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> Based on Nancy's response, I would like the base expectation at the
> time of
> entry to be raised.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: Nbalkon at aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:49:45 -0400> Subject:
>> Re:
> [NPInfo]: "It's called residency and .... experience"> To:
> npinfo at nurse.net>
>>>> In a message dated 4/3/2008 9:45:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >
> dmittman at advancedprac.com writes:> > Sue: It is called residency
> and if
> s(he) is in practice longer, > experience.> Dave> > > Dave Mittman
> wrote
> response above to a well written e-mail regarding > preceptorship
> and the
> authors observation...> > Despite these efforts, I keep > >
> wondering how it
> is all second nature to my collaborating doc and a > > challenge to
> me.
> Bridging that gap is where I what I would hope a > > DNP would
> achieve - I
> don't think that I am hearing that is the case.> > NANCE RESPONDS:
> Call it
> residency or clinical practicum... skills are > learned there...
> Also, keep
> in mind the levels of skill acquisition [novice to > expert] in any
> field...and typical time it takes to be "competent".. 3 > years!
> For RNs who
> enter NP practice with clin!
>
> ical experience and BS in nsg the > learning curve for "competent" is
> shortened.> > There is a big difference in compentency for all
> clinicians at
> time of entry > in to practice vs. with experience. Outcomes and
> expectations at end of > education/entry into practice are clearly
> defined.>
>> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> Southern New York State
> Representative -- AANP> Clinical Associate Professor, Stony Brook
> University
> School of Nursing> > > > > **************Planning your summer road
> trip?
> Check out AOL Travel Guides. >
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
> ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
>> _______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list>
> NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
> *****************************
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live
> Messenger.
>
> http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?
> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL
> _Refresh_messenger_video_042008
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 8
>
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:30:44 +0000
>
> From: Sue Wiers <sgwiers at hotmail.com>
>
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article
>
> To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
>
> Message-ID: <BAY112-W18CFB9440CC6DB98E46B22A1F10 at phx.gbl>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
>
> Agreed. I remember driving around with FHEA cassette tapes after
> getting
> out while looking for my first job. It helped bridge some gaps.
>
>
>
> Sue
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: lindamarie76 at msn.com> To: npinfo at nurse.net> Subject: RE:
>> [NPInfo]
> Re: WSJ Article> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:21:54 -0400> > > Just my two
> cents. . . . please no flames. . . . > > The only cadaver
> experience I had
> was with a cat in my A&P classes which were taken as a pre-req to
> nursing
> school (how many years ago???). I have never taken a suture class
> (and I am
> left handed). 12 lead EKGs I learned on my own. > > Muscoloskeltal was
> grossly neglected in my program. I bought all of Peg Fitzgerald's
> tapes to
> learn what I know.> > - Linda > From: meyerlm at chartermi.net> To:
> npinfo at nurse.net> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> Date: Fri,
> 4 Apr
> 2008 11:02:10 -0500> > Dena and group--> > First, do you know how
> extremly
> unusual it is to have a cadaver experience > at a community
> college? I took
> my A&P in a research-based university > pre-med program and we had
> kitty
> cats--never saw a cadaver. Medicals > schools DO require undergraduate
> anatomy as well as med school anatomy o!
>
> n > cadavers. My NP program did not require anatomy beyond our
> undergraduate > course.> > My NP program did not cover 12 lead
> interp, as
> "most of you already know > this". I never had 12 lead interp in my
> undergraduate training, nor was I > ever expected as an RN to read
> 12-leads.
> I had basic instruction on rhythm > strips in my ACLS courses.> >
> As for
> suturing, I never had the opportunity to place a stitch in my NP >
> program,
> but we did get a 4 hour workshop with a pig hock. My current role >
> as a
> part time ED NP requires me to suture (sometimes complex wounds)
> 1-4 > times
> per shift.> > I had no idea when I was in my NP program, exactly
> what areas
> in would end > up working in during my career. I had no idea that I
> would
> end up in an ED > or working in mental health as I also do part
> time. I
> really think that our > clinical education needs a more standardized,
> broader range. Because NP > students often have to find their own
> clinical
> experiences, it is possible > for an NP !
>
> student to choose their hours between a couple of "favorites" or >
> wha
>
> tever is available. This wouldn't be terrible if we knew that the
> NP > would
> only end up practicing in these specialties.> > Our NP programs are
> not
> turning out equivalent, well-rounded students in > many cases, and
> a DNP
> with more clinical content could help to solve some of > that
> problem--but
> it won't as it stands. As for repitition, how many > statistics,
> research
> utilization, and management classes does one need?> > Lisa> > -----
> Original
> Message ----- > From: "Dena" <galdena at sbcglobal.net>> To: "'NP Info'"
> <npinfo at nurse.net>> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:15 AM>
> Subject: RE:
> [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> > > > Marilyn--> > A couple of questions
> about
> your wish list.> >> > Shouldn't anatomy with a cadaver be done as an
> undergraduate? Is there a > > reason that someone in a DNP program
> would
> need to learn that stuff all > > over again? I had my cadaver
> experience at
> the community college level-- > > and certainly wouldnt have
> wanted to have
> repeated it now in my DNP > > !
>
> program! How many anatomy classes do you think someone needs?> >>
> > In my
> MSN NP program we had a whole day of EKGs (although I missed that >
> > day
> <G>)-- being nurses already, most of us had some experience with >
> > reading
> them. How long do you think an EKG class should be-- a whole > >
> semester?>
>>>> Beyond basic suturing? Certainly not something everyone needs to
>>>> know
> (how > > many people actually do ANY suturing in their clinic
> practices?)
> and dont > > you think advanced suturing (and more intense EKG
> experience)
> could come > > in the one year residency if someone is interested
> in an ED,
> plastics, or > > other specialty area where that knowledge is
> necessary?> >>
>> "MS" as in Multiple Sclerosis or M/S as in musculoskeletal? Again,
>> for
>>>>
> those interested, an ortho or sports medicine rotation during the > >
> residency could cover all of this.> >> > The reason the NP programs
> are
> being expanded in length is that "those in > > power above" now
> realize that
> they cant te!
>
> ach everything we need to know > > in 2 years. And with this added
> 1-2
>
> yrs to the already 2+ yrs of the > > current MSN program, we have
> enough
> hours of education that it becomes > > equivalent to other health care
> "doctoral" programs (PT, PharmD, etc), > > therefore we certainly
> deserve
> our "Dr" title as well for an extended > > program. This is the whole
> rationale behind the DNP degree. You just cant > > cram any more
> clinical
> content into the MSN NP programs-- you can only > > cram so much
> into 2
> years.> > Dena Galler> >> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From:
> npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf > > Of
> Marilyn Dean> > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:12 AM> > To: NP
> Info> >
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> > Hi Dena,> > First I
> need to say
> that I believe that the DNP is here to stay and I > > believe it
> can be a
> positive change for Nurse Practitioners and those we > > care for.>
> > I
> agree there is less to teach the MSN NP clinically, but programs
> that > >
> are going to use the DNP for entry level !
>
> need to look at the clinical > > content. Many of us have
> complained of
> lack of several things in our > > programs.> > Here would be my
> clinical
> wish list. I'm sure many could add to this. For > > the MSN NP,
> optional
> opportunities for electives in clinical areas where > > the NP
> feels weak
> would make the program more attractive and practical.> > A
> dedicated class
> to EKG interp.> > More procedures (even simple ones like lesion
> removal).> >
> Suturing beyond basic.> > More emphasis on MS evaluation.> >
> Anatomy class
> with a cadaver.> > Anyone care to add to these?> > Marilyn Dean> >> >
> -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net
> [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On> > Behalf Of Dena> > Sent:
> Wednesday,
> April 02, 2008 10:18 PM> > To: 'NP Info'> > Subject: RE: [NPInfo]
> Re: WSJ
> Article> >> >> > The 18-24 mos MSN to DNP bridging programs don't
> Article> >> >> > typically
> have any > > clinical components as we received our clinical
> experience in
> our MSN-NP > > programs. What else coul!
>
> d they teach us about clinical stuff-- especially > > for those of us
>
> who have many years of clinical experience already behind > > us?
> The new
> 3-4 year DNP NP programs (which will replace the 2 yr MSN NP > >
> programs)
> will, of course, contain all the clinical experience that we > >
> received in
> our MSN programs PLUS the additional "doctoral" level courses. > >
> To say
> that the DNP is the "clinical" doctorate simply means it isn't > >
> research
> based-- most DNP programs require a Capstone project (not a > >
> research
> dissertation) based on evidence based practice to solve a > > clinical
> problem and borrows from research already done by others. This > >
> separates
> the DNP from the more research heavy DNSc and PhD. It was > >
> explained to
> me that DNPs take the PhD and DNSc dissertations down from > >
> their high
> shelves, blow off the dust, and actually put that re!> > search into
> clinical practice. It's basically that simple. The DNP does > > NOT
> teach
> the MSN prepared NP ANYTHING clinical at all. Again, what could > >
> they
> teach us???> > Dena Galler>!
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----> > From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net
> [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf > > Of Marilyn Dean> >
> Sent:
> Wednesday, April 02, 2008 6:18 PM> > To: NP Info> > Subject: RE:
> [NPInfo]
> Re: WSJ Article> >> > Review the program format for the DNP and see
> what you
> think about > > clinical> > content. I have looked at one well
> known program
> and found it lacking in> > additional clinical content. I was
> disappointed.>
>> Marilyn Dean> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From:
> npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net]On> >
> Behalf Of
> David Mittman> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:26 PM> > To: NP
> Info> >
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] Re: WSJ Article> >> >> > Tracey: I comment
> vocally and
> forcefully all the time on how the PA> > profession is not forwarding
> itself.> > As everyone knows, I am not an NP, so I comment as a
> professional> > colleague or cousin and as someone who has been
> involved
> professional> > in
> medical> > politics for many years.> > Reading the!
>
> article, three things struck me. At the same time the> > Medical
> Soci
>
> ety of the State of NY is attacking the scope of practice> > of
> PAs, do we
> really need the "we are as good as doctors" spin this> > DNP article
> espouses? It is the NPs of NY State and elsewhere (as the> > WALL
> STREET
> JOURNAL is read nationally) who will get the push back on> > these
> comments
> and I am not sure if they are said with the discretion> > the times
> may
> dictate .> > Secondly, the assertion that DNPs (see chart) are only
> NPs who
> go on> > for further education. That is just not true. As it is not
> just
> NPs,> > one can not generalize about the graduates "being
> equivalent to> >
> family physicians". I doubt a DNP midwife can practice primary
> care.> >
> Lastly there is an underlying notion to ME that Master's prepared
> NPs> > are
> less than DNPs. There are three levels of nurse talked about in> > the
> article and chart. The reader comes away thinking these DNP> >
> graduates
> will get more clinical training and that is also just not> > the
> case. There
> I no studies I know of that sh!
>
> ow that the DNP is> > clinically superior to any other NP in clinical
> practice. That> > article strongly suggests that.> > I would be very
> bothered by that assertion.> > OK, mini rant off now.> > Dave> >>
> >> > On
> Apr 2, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Tracy Klein wrote:> >> >> The section of this
> article that disturbed me was the phrase:> >> "equivalent to family
> physicians". I would assume (and may still> >> assume, I suppose)
> that this
> was a misquote. Unfortunately, I've> >> read the same language
> several times
> from this particular> >> spokesperson. While it may be expeditious
> to assert
> that the DNP in> >> New York is "more better" in order to gain
> regulatory
> autonomy, it> >> does not do the rest of the profession any favors to
> compare them,> >> once again, to a physician standard as the superior
> standard and to> >> their practicing peers as the inferior
> standard.> >>> >>
> As a disclaimer, I favor the DNP, but I care about how we talk> >>
> about it
> and the terminology we use.> >>> >> Tra!
>
> cy Klein, WHCNP,FNP> >> Portland, Oregon> >>> >> npinfo-
> request at nurse.
>
> net wrote:> >> Send NPInfo mailing list submissions to> >>
> npinfo at nurse.net>
>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> >>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >> or, via email,
> send a
> message with subject or body 'help' to> >> npinfo-
> request at nurse.net> >>> >>
> You can reach the person managing the list at> >> npinfo-
> owner at nurse.net>
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>>>>> specific>
>>> than "Re: Contents of NPInfo digest..."> >>> >>> >> Today's Topics:>
>>>>>> 1. MRSA Dr Phil Style (Priscilla Merrill)> >> 2. WSJ Health Blog:
>>> "Dr.
> Nurse" (SGrtWhite at aol.com)> >> 3. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr.
> Nurse" (David
> Mittman)> >> 4. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" ... comment
> (Nbalkon at aol.com)> >> 5. Re: WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (Thiem)>
> >> 6. Re:
> WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse" (David Mittman)> >> 7. Re: WSJ Health
> Blog:
> "Dr. Nurse" (Kate Hammill)> >> 8. Wall Street Journal DNP article
> (David
> Mittman)> >>> >>> >> ---------------!
>
> -------------------------------------------------------> >>> >>
> Message: 1>
>>> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 06:45:36 -0400> >> From: "Priscilla Merrill">
>>>>>>
>>> Subject: [NPInfo] MRSA Dr Phil Style> >> To: "'NP Clinical'" , "'NP
> Info'"> >>> >> Message-ID: <00ec01c894ae$af456480
> $6700a8c0 at Priscilla>> >>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> >>> >> Did any of
> you see
> Dr. Phil yesterday? It was on MRSA/ cSuperbugd> >> I think he did a
> good job
> overall presenting most of the key points.> >> Have any of you
> seen, heard
> of or used the uv light cCleanse Wandd?> >> Fascinating!> >> HYPERLINK
> "HYPERLINK http://www.cleanselight.com> >> http://
> www.cleanselight.com"
> HYPERLINK www.cleanselight.com> >> www.cleanselight.com (I see they
> sold out
> quickly after his show )> >> He carried a diluted spray bottle of
> Lysol
> wherever he goes (Dr.> >> Sears, no> >> Phil)> >> A little hype
> perhaps but
> food for thought.> >> We donbt seem to have the MRSA problem as
> severely
> here in NH as> >> other!
>
> s.> >> Too darn cold for those bugs! Ibm finally seeing patches of
> gra
>
> ss> >> through> >> the snow!> >>> >> HYPERLINK
> http://drphil.com/shows/show/1048/> >> http://drphil.com/shows/show/
> 1048/>
>>>>>> Priscilla Merrill FNP> >>> >>> >>> >> No virus found in this
>>>>>> outgoing
> message.> >> Checked by AVG.> >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database:
> 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:> >> 4/1/2008> >> 5:37 PM> >>> >>> >>
> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 2> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
> ------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
> 10:09:42 EDT> >> From: SGrtWhite at aol.com> >> Subject: [NPInfo] WSJ
> Health
> Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: npinfo at nurse.net> >> Message-ID:> >>
> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >>> >>
> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
> mod=WSJBlog_> >>
> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
> mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about
> doctorate
> degrees and> >> nurse> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician
> comment:>
>>>>>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can use %
>>>>>> ~Dr. %
> some> >> physicians>!
>
>>> worry that patients could become confused. %~Nurses with
>>> an> >>
> advanced degree are> >> not the same as doctors who have been to
> medical
> school, % says> >> Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the
> American
> Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>> >> See? Our goal is to try and
> "confuse"
> patients into thinking that> >> we are> >> physicians. Please!> >>> >>
> Stephen> >>> >>> >>> >> **************Create a Home Theater Like the
> Stephen> >>> >>> >>> >> Pros.
> Watch the video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >>
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>
> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> >>> >>
> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 3> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
> ------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
> 10:26:47 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo]
> WSJ Health
> Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;> >> format=flowed> >>>
> >> When
> you are a physician you feel that you are captain of the ship> >>
> (and in
> many ways you are).> >> Others c!
>
> ome along that SAY that they can do what you do........> >> They
> say t
>
> hat you do not need to go to medical school to be a good> >>
> clinician...............> >> And now some of these people want to be
> referred to as "Doctor".> >> I fully understand how physicians
> would at a
> minimum feel that> >> patients will be confused (and they will be)
> and at a
> maximum, how> >> there will soon be no difference between others
> who did not
> do it> >> "the right way" as they did which to them is the ONLY way
> one can>
>>> do it.> >> I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to docs
> generally.> >> That being said if you have a doctorate in a
> clinical area,
> you> >> earned it and should use it.> >> Dave> >>> >> On Apr 2,
> 2008, at
> 10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote:> >>> >>>
> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>
> mod=WSJBlog_> >>>
> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>
> mod=WSJBlog)> >>>> >>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about
> doctorate
> degrees and> >>> nurse> >>> practitioners. Gotta love the ph!
>
> ysician comment:> >>>> >>> "Also, since these nurses with a
> doctorate can
> use cDr.d some> >>> physicians> >>> worry that patients could become
> confused. cNurses with an advanced> >>> degree are> >>> not the
> same as
> doctors who have been to medical school,d says> >>> Roger Moore,> >>>
> incoming president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists.">
> >>>> >>>
> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients into thinking that>
> >>> we
> are> >>> physicians. Please!> >>>> >>> Stephen> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video>
> >>> on
> AOL> >>> Home.> >>>
> AOL> >>> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?>
>>>> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>>
> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing
> list>
>>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>>> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>
> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 4> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
> ------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
> 10:37:28 ED!
>
> T> >> From: Nbalkon at aol.com> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health
> Blog:
>
> "Dr. Nurse" ... comment> >> To: npinfo at nurse.net> >> Message-ID:> >>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >>> >> Good Day....> >>>
> >> Am
> responding to the quote below...> >>> >> My name tag clearly states
> Nancy
> Balkon, PhD, NP> >>> >> It has been "the physicians" who have
> called me
> "Dr".... and the> >> patients> >> who are often interested to know
> that
> nurses earn advanced> >> degrees.... yes,> >> EVEN doctorates!> >>> >>
> Sighhh.... the "medical school"/ "medical education" argument is>
> >> soooooo
> old> >> and over-rated! Medical school is FOUR years post
> baccalaureate>
> old> >> >>
> education.... with.... "internship"/"residency" thereafter....> >>> >>
> Comparing this to APRN education [didactic & clinical]...and...> >>
> years
> in> >> practice..... isn't worth the bother....> >>> >> WHAT is
> impt. is
> that we, as health professionals, should> >> "celebrate" and> >>
> "respect"
> the uniqueness of one another, collaborate> >> professionally, and
> work> >>
> together toward a common goal... i!
>
> mproving health care in this> >> country! This> >> is the most
> profitable
> expenditure of the energy wasted on turf> >> battles!> >>> >>
> "Also, since
> these nurses with a doctorate can use %~Dr. % some> >>
> physicians>
>>> worry that patients could become confused. %~Nurses with an> >>
>>> advanced
> degree> >> are> >> not the same as doctors who have been to medical
> degree> >> are> >> school,
> % says> >> Roger Moore,> >> incoming president of the American
> Society of
> Anesthesiologists."> >>> >>
> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
> mod=WSJBlog_> >>
> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
> mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> Nancy Balkon, PhD, ANP-C, APRN-CS, NPP> >>
> Southern New
> York State Representative -- AANP> >> Clinical Associate Professor,
> Stony
> Brook University School of Nursing> >>> >>> >>> >>
> **************Create a
> Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >>
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >> video=1!
>
> 5&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>> >>> >>
> -----------------------------
>
> -> >>> >> Message: 5> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:38:41 -0700 (PDT)
> > >>
> From: Thiem> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] WSJ Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse">
> >> To:
> NP Info> >> Message-ID:
> <690808.75384.qm at web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>> >>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> >>> >> In Missouri this
> restricted use of "Dr" has been suggested in> >> legislation by the
> physician groups. Our (nurses) suggestion is> >> that anyone who
> uses "Dr"
> must also identify what type of doctorate> >> they hold. This would
> include
> all professions and would distribute> >> the responsibility of
> disclosure
> evenly.> >>> >> Laura> >>> >> SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote:
> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/> >>
> say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_> >>
> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>
> mod=WSJBlog)> >>> >> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about
> doctorate
> degrees and> >> nurse> >> practitioners. Gotta love the physician
> comment:>
>>>>>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctor!
>
> ate can use %~Dr. % some> >> physicians> >> worry that
> patients could
> become confused. %~Nurses with an> >> advanced degree
> are> >>
> not the same as doctors who have been to medical school, % says>
> >> Roger
> Moore,> >> incoming president of the American Society of
> Anesthesiologists."> >>> >> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse"
> patients
> into thinking that> >> we are> >> physicians. Please!> >>> >>
> Stephen> >>>
>>>>>>>>> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the
> video> >> on AOL> >> Home.> >>
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>
> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>
> _______________________________________________> >> NPInfo mailing
> list> >>
> NPInfo at nurse.net> >> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/
> npinfo> >>
> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>
> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 6> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
> ------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
> 11:13:56 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: Re: [NPInfo]
> WSJ Health
> Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> !
>
> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=WIND
>
> OWS-1252; delsp=yes;> >> format=flowed> >>> >> Many states already
> have this
> law (prohibiting the use of the term> >> "doctor" in a medical
> setting). It
> will be interesting to see how> >> this all plays out.> >> Years
> ago, there
> were no other doctorates that did what physicians> >> did, so no one
> opposed.> >> Now there are. The mistake that will take years to
> correct, is
> that> >> society made physician and doctor a word with the same
> that> >> meaning.> >>
> Generally still holds. When one screams "Is there a doctor in the> >>
> house?" in a public place they are not asking for a PharmD.> >> And
> to deny
> that it will confuse patients is to deny reality. AGAIN> >> that
> still is no
> excuse for prohibiting us using it, only that we> >> should be
> sensative to
> that confusion and possibly address it.> >> Dave> >> On Apr 2,
> 2008, at
> 10:38 AM, Thiem wrote:> >>> >>> In Missouri this restricted use of
> "Dr" has
> been suggested in> >>> legislation by the physician groups. Our
> (nurses)
> suggestion is> >>>!
>
> that anyone who uses "Dr" must also identify what type of
> doctorate> >>>
> they hold. This would include all professions and would distribute>
> >>> the
> responsibility of disclosure evenly.> >>>> >>> Laura> >>>> >>>
> SGrtWhite at aol.com wrote: _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/> >>>
> say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog_> >>>
> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?> >>>
> mod=WSJBlog)> >>>> >>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog about
> doctorate
> degrees and> >>> nurse> >>> practitioners. Gotta love the physician
> comment:> >>>> >>> "Also, since these nurses with a doctorate can
> use cDr.d
> some> >>> physicians> >>> worry that patients could become confused.
> some> >>> physicians> >>> cNurses
> with an advanced> >>> degree are> >>> not the same as doctors who
> have been
> to medical school,d says> >>> Roger Moore,> >>> incoming president
> of the
> American Society of Anesthesiologists."> >>>> >>> See? Our goal is
> to try
> and "confuse" patients into thinking that> >>> we are> >>>
> physicians. P!
>
> lease!> >>>> >>> Stephen> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> **************Create
> a Ho
>
> me Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video> >>> on AOL> >>> Home.> >>>
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>>
> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>>
> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing
> list>
>>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>>> *****************************> >>>> >>>
> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing
> list>
>>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>>> *****************************> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>
> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 7> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
> ------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
> 08:15:39 -0700 (PDT)> >> From: Kate Hammill> >> Subject: Re:
> [NPInfo] WSJ
> Health Blog: "Dr. Nurse"> >> To: NP Info> >> Message-ID:
> <729375.57014.qm at web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> >> Content-Type:
> text/plain;
> charset=iso-8859-1> >>> >> The proper name for them is "physician".
> "Doctor"
> is> >> a broader term encompassing the Doctor of Philosophy,> >!
>
>> among other things, and is owned and used properly by> >> thousand
>> who
> are non-physicians. Physicians have no> >> leg to stand on that
> this term
> belongs to only them> >> and we should not let them get away with
> it--I
> never> >> use the term "doctor" to describe them--always> >>
> "physician"
> (and usually add "heal thyself" as an> >> aside.) Boy, its' a full
> time job,
> isn't it, just> >> keeping up with the dishonesty and
> disingenuousness of>
>>> this gang.> >> Kate Hammill> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> --- David
>>> Mittman
> wrote:> >>> >>> When you are a physician you feel that you are> >>>
> captain
> of the ship> >>> (and in many ways you are).> >>> Others come along
> that SAY
> that they can do what you> >>> do........> >>> They say that you do
> not need
> to go to medical> >>> school to be a good> >>>
> clinician...............> >>>
> And now some of these people want to be referred to> >>> as
> "Doctor".> >>> I
> fully understand how physicians would at a minimum> >>> feel that> >>>
> patients wil!
>
> l be confused (and they will be) and at> >>> a maximum, how> >>>
> there
>
> will soon be no difference between others who> >>> did not do it>
> >>> "the
> right way" as they did which to them is the> >>> ONLY way one can
> do it.>
>>>> I can nfullkyfullky see how threatening this is to> >>> docs
>>>> generally.> That being said if you have a doctorate in a> >>>
>>>> clinical area, you> earned it and should use it.> >>> Dave> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> On Apr 2, 2008, at
> 10:09 AM, SGrtWhite at aol.com> >>> wrote:> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>
> _http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?>
> >>>> >>>>
> mod=WSJBlog_> >>>>> >>>> >>
> (http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?>
> >>>> >>>>
> mod=WSJBlog)> >>>>> >>>> An article in today's WSJ Health Blog
> about> >>>
> doctorate degrees and> >>>> nurse> >>>> practitioners. Gotta love the
> physician comment:> >>>>> >>>> "Also, since these nurses with a
> doctorate
> can use> >>> cDr.d some> >>>> physicians> >>>> worry that patients
> could
> become confused. cNurses> >>> with an advanced> >>>> degree are>
> >>>> not
> the same as d!
>
> octors who have been to medical> >>> school,d says> >>>> Roger
> Moore,> >>>>
> incoming president of the American Society of> >>>
> Anesthesiologists.">
>>>>>>>>>> See? Our goal is to try and "confuse" patients> >>> into
>>>>>>>>>> thinking
> that> >>>> we are> >>>> physicians. Please!> >>>>> >>>> Stephen> >>>>>
> that> >>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros.> >>> Watch
>>>>>>>>>> the
> video> >>>> on AOL> >>>> Home.> >>>>> >>>> >>
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?> >>>> >>>>
> video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)> >>>>
> _______________________________________________> >>>> NPInfo
> mailing list>
>>>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>>
>>>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>>>> *****************************> >>>> >>>> >>>
> _______________________________________________> >>> NPInfo mailing
> list>
>>>> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>>
>>>> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
>>>> *****************************> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>
> __________________________________________________!
>
> ____________________> >> ______________> >> You rock. That's why
> Block
>
> buster's offering you one month of> >> Blockbuster Total Access, No
> Cost.>
>>> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> >>> >>> >>
> ------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 8> >> Date: Wed, 2 Apr
> ------------------------------> >>> >> 2008
> 11:26:35 -0400> >> From: David Mittman> >> Subject: [NPInfo] Wall
> Street
> Journal DNP article> >> To: ACC Circle Circle , NPinfo> >> , PA
> Forum> >>>
>>> Message-ID:> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes;
> format=flowed> >>> >> Keeping the argument aside on whether one
> needs this
> or not- I know> >> that not just NPs are able to get the DNP and
> that in
> many programs> >> there is little advanced CLINICAL training (ie.
> clinical
> residency).> >> This article seems to suggest something very
> different. It
> is one> >> institutions view of the DNP not what is fully
> happening.> >>
> Dave> >>> >>> >> Making Room> >> For 'Dr. Nurse'> >> April 2, 2008;
> Page
> Dave> >>> >>> >> D1>
>>> As the shortage of primary-care physicians mounts, the nursing> >>
> profession is offering a possible s!
>
> olution: the "doctor nurse."> >>> >> More than 200 nursing schools
> have
> established or plan to launch> >> doctorate of nursing practice
> programs to
> equip graduates with skills> >> the schools say are equivalent to
> primary-care physicians. The two-> >> year programs, including a
> one-year
> residency, create a "hybrid> >> practitioner" with more skills,
> knowledge
> and training than a nurse> >> practitioner with a master's degree,
> says Mary
> Mundinger, dean of New> >> York's Columbia University School of
> Nursing. She
> says DNPs are being> >> trained to have more focus than doctors on
> coordinating care among> >> many specialists and health-care
> settings.> >>>
>>>>>> @9> >>> >> Dawn Bucher, DNP, and child patient at Ivanhoe Clinic
>>>>>> in
> Ivanhoe,> >> Minn.> >> To establish a national standard for doctors of
> nursing practice, the> >> non-profit Council for the Advancement of
> Comprehensive Care plans to> >> announce Wednesday that the
> National Board
> of Medical Examiners has> >> agreed to !
>
> develop a voluntary DNP certification exam based on the> >> same test
>
> physicians take to qualify for a medical license. The board> >>
> will begin
> administering the exam this fall. By 2015, the American> >>
> Association of
> Colleges of Nursing aims to make the doctoral degree> >> the
> standard for
> all new advanced practice nurses, including nurse> >>
> practitioners.> >>> >>
> But some physician groups warn that blurring the line between
> doctors> >>
> and nurses will confuse patients and jeopardize care. Nurses with> >>
> doctorates use DrNP after their name, and can also use the> >>
> designation
> Dr. as a title. Physician groups want DNPs to be required> >> to
> clearly
> state to patients and prospective students that they are> >> not
> medical
> doctors. "Nurses with an advanced degree are not the same> >> as
> doctors who
> have been to medical school," says Roger Moore,> >> incoming
> president of
> the American Society of Anesthesiologists.> >>> >> "With four years of
> medical school and three years of residency> >> training, physicians'
> understanding of complex medica!
>
> l issues and> >> clinical expertise is unequaled," adds James King,
> president of the> >> American Academy of Family Physicians. While
> nurses
> with advanced> >> degrees play an important role in delivering
> care, Dr.
> King says they> >> should work as part of a physician-directed
> team.> >>> >>
> Although there are no precise statistics on the number of nurses
> with> >>
> doctorates because the programs are relatively new, there are
> about> >>
> 1,874 DNP students currently enrolled in programs nationwide, up
> from> >>
> 862 students in 2006, according to the American Association of> >>
> Colleges
> of Nursing.> >>> >> Nurses have increasingly been moving into more
> specialized and> >> advanced roles over the past few decades.
> Advanced-practice nurses> >> include specialists in fields such as
> nurse
> midwives and nurse> >> anesthetists, and there are now more than
> 125,000
> nurse practitioners> >> in the U.S. Nurse practitioners in some
> states are
> required to work> >> with or be supervised by physi!
>
> cians, but often have independent> >> practices in family
> medicine, ad
>
> ult care, pediatrics and oncology.> >>> >> A study led by
> Columbia's Dr.
> Mundinger and published in the Journal> >> of the American Medical
> Association in 2000 showed comparable patient> >> outcomes in patients
> randomly assigned to nurse practitioners and> >> primary-care
> physicians.>
>>>>>> Nurse practitioners fear the doctoral programs might be raising
>>>>>> the>
>>> bar too high for their profession. The American Academy of Nurse> >>
> Practitioners says it supports access to a higher educational
> degree> >> for
> nurses, but wants to ensure that members won't be marginalized or> >>
> required to go back to school for a costly advanced degree. Nurse> >>
> practitioners can write prescriptions, are eligible for Medicare
> and> >>
> Medicaid reimbursement, and often act as the primary health-care> >>
> provider for their patients.> >>> >> "Nurse practitioners with
> master's
> degrees are already filling the> >> primary-care shortages and
> providing
> quality, cost-effective care,> >> many times in pla!
>
> ces that physicians are unwilling to practice," says> >> Wendy
> Vogel, a
> nurse practitioner specializing in oncology at Blue> >>> >> ===
> message
> truncated ===> >> _______________________________________________>
> >> NPInfo
> mailing list> >> NPInfo at nurse.net> >>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >>
> *****************************> >> >> >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing
> list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> >> >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing
> list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> >> >> >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing
> list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> > http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> >> >> >
> _______________________________________________> > NPInfo mailing
> list> >
> NPInfo at nurse.net> >!
>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *******************
>
> **********> >> >> > _______________________________________________> >
> NPInfo mailing list> > NPInfo at nurse.net> >
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo> >
> *****************************> > > >
> _______________________________________________> NPInfo mailing list>
> NPInfo at nurse.net> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
> *****************************_________________________________________
> ______
>> NPInfo mailing list> NPInfo at nurse.net>
> http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo>
> *****************************
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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