[NPInfo] re: DNP thread

Fri Apr 11 08:45:42 PDT 2008

Margie--
  I can certainly understand and empathize with your concerns-- I had all the same ones myself before making the decision to enter the DNP program-- I didn't have a spare $2500 laying around much less the $25000 in tuition alone  for the 2 yr program. I live in one of the most expensive places in the country and also don't have a second income from a husband/S.O., so working full-time while going to school was my only option... and not an easy endeavor at that!! My mother offered to give me a piece of my inheritance early to cover all the tuition expenses-- with the permission and blessings of my brother and sister (not sure why THAT was necessary but at least it should make for less fighting when it comes time to read the will and split the fortune later, I guess) but I still had airfare, hotel rooms, meals, books, and other miscellaneous expenses (project consultants, statisticians, printing and binding fees, etc) that had to come from my own pocket. No one has ever said
 that education is free or cheap in this country!!

  I have heard from a couple of my classmates who work at various VAs around the country that I can expect a two step promotion with the new degree-- which of course, translates into more money. Not sure how much more $$ that 2 step increase will bring me but I'll certainly take ANY salary increase for all the time, trouble, and money that I've invested in this. In the long run, will this degree be worth it... doubt it. Will it give me more prestige and command the respect of MDs everywhere... never!  Will insurance companies now reimburse me 100% for my work... of course not! Will it look good on a resume and get my foot in the door for just about any job I may want to apply for... possibly. Will it mean I can sleep better at night with this all finally behind me... I certainly hope so!!  And maybe I'll be able to actually reduce my stress level and wine consumption afterward but possibly only therapy can really help those issues <G>.  

  As for DNP programs requiring a GRE, for goodness sakes, my MSN program required one of me before I could even apply for my program. Are you saying that Florida graduate programs don't require a GRE for admittance?

  As for any organization trying to raise salaries, I just don't see how that is possible. In the private sector, anyone can offer any salary to their employees-- as long as it equals or above Federal minimum wage.  I don't think anyone can dictate to others who much they HAVE to pay NPs... an employer generally can only afford to pay what their budget allows.
  Dena Galler

Margienp at aol.com wrote:

So we already have a shortage of instructors and we are decreasing the 
supply of instructors.
Personally I very glad you are dedicated but I can not pay my house payment 
by smiling.
I make a very nice salary now , I looked into teaching and the pay was 
45000$, with a DNP I think it might be 7000$ more. These is much less than half of 
what I make now. I am in our state organization and we have pushing to have 
all the salaries increased but it has not worked. 
If the present DNP's want to practice are they attempting to increase 
salaries?

I will brutally honest, many of NP's I know that are obtaining their DNP, 
have a husband making a 6 figure salary , not everyone has this two salary 
family.
The economy is in major crises and many are stressed concerning this.
I would love to obtain my DNP. but it seems the nursing profession places 
many barriers to us obtaining this degree.
I live in florida and to go to a state school you are required to take the 
GRE, and obtain a score. To me this is an insult . It has been shown these are 
not predictor of success.
Lets be honest.
In a message dated 4/11/2008 9:10:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
galdena at sbcglobal.net writes:

The same people who are teaching the MSN NP students... since there won't BE
any MSN NP students any more. The program I'm in has PhDs, DNScs, and DNPs
teaching-- all nurses except one guy from Univ CA at San Francisco who
taught us our technical writing course and an attorney-physical therapist
who taught our medical-legal class.
Dena Galler

-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of Margienp at aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 5:23 AM
To: npinfo at nurse.net
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] re: DNP thread

Who will teach the dNP students?
In a message dated 4/9/2008 7:32:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
meyerlm at chartermi.net writes:

Marty,
I agree with what you've said. And it made me think of another point: we 
supposedly have a shortage now of nursing instructors for ADN and BSN 
programs. Will the "diverting" of nursing professors to teach in DNP 
programs worsen this shortage?

Lisa

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] re: DNP thread

> Isn't that why you took up running? There is no top level, because of the

> same adage, "those that can do, will do it, and those who can not teach".

> If you look at the system, and the more recent history of Nursing, you
can 
> see that those involved in Academia are the one's who control the levels,

> and they keep raising the bar. So as long as these conditions continue, 
> change is impossible.
>
> Nursing is not a democracy, it is closer to a dictatorship, where 
> decisions and policies are made from those that control the system. If 
> they are not happy, they change things. They are also the ones that have 
> controlled Nursing for so long, because if you can not get whatever 
> education is required to enter the profession, you can not go anywhere. 
> Some physicians do full time academics, but they are a small minority in 
> comparison to the percentage in Nursing, and, except for specializations,

> their levels of training begin and end at the entry level, while Nursing 
> keeps raising the bar and one has to question to whose benefit?
>
> Physicians have uniformity that Nursing has not even come close to 
> meeting, nor do I believe they want to. There are how many medical
schools 
> or nursing schools, and the number of nursing schools keeps growing?
Also, 
> Nursing has never learned that "putting the cart before the horse" does 
> not work, but the educational systems have to keep upping the stakes or 
> they will be out of both a position and need.
>
> This is unique to nursing and nursing alone. For example, if you enter 
> "education" to become a teacher, you may incur step increases in pay when

> you finish a program or advanced degree, but, while administration being 
> the highest level of the field, would like doctoral prepared candidates, 
> it is not required. Even when you do reach the highest level, it is more

> political than educationally oriented, which can not be said for Nursing.

> So we have all allowed the system to be controlled by the very system
that 
> allowed us to enter the profession.
>
> What that translates into is that unless the control is maintained by the

> same gate keepers that allow one to enter, they will probably always keep

> raising the bar, because it means their jobs, and many could not work in 
> the field, or want to, just keep in academia. This has perpetuated
itself, 
> and I do not see any changes, or any reason that the "leaders" want a 
> change. Therefore, we are not fully consulted of proposed changes, if at 
> all, and those that can, will make the bar higher and higher because
"they 
> can"! Marty
>
> Diana Galler wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I doubt that the DNP degree will ever be considered a 
>> "terminal" degree for NPs... it will be entry level only with the PhD
and 
>> DNSc still the "ultimate" degrees. Already I've heard discussions of 
>> DNP-to-PhD programs and it just makes me want to spit!!! I don't think I

>> will ever hit the top rung in nursing in this lifetime since they keep 
>> dangling that darn carrot further and further away just as I get closer 
>> to nabbing it.
>> Dena Galler
>>
>>
>> I agree that the move to DNP is not the magic wand that will 
>> immediately
>> change reimbursement, respect, access to care, etc..... but from a
>> professional standpoint it is a needed move to show a terminal practice
>> degree for the profession.
>>
>>
>> Mary Elizabeth
>>
>>
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