[NPInfo] AMA News

Tue Jun 10 19:15:40 PDT 2008

WHAT'S LEFT TO ARGUE???? The whole purpose of this exam!! The fact that a
non-NP nursing academia type and medical associations are pushing for it for
their own agendas. The fact that this test is for DNP NPs only and further
separates the profession by alienating the MSN prepared NP. That the
bridging NP programs generally don’t contain any clinical components to them
so what exactly are we testing??? I already proved my competency in the
clinical arena by taking the ANCC FNP certification exam after my MSN
program. That the certifying bodies stand to make a lot more money off of us
by pushing this additional exam. And the fact that no other EDUCATIONAL
DEGREE needs a certification exam to prove they deserve their doctoral
degrees (PhD, DNSc, etc). No one can HONESTLY believe that if we pass this
little new exam that MDs will finally accept us as equal colleagues. OH NO!
They will always find something else to throw in our faces because they
don’t WANT us as equal colleagues. I think THAT little list sums up MY
opposition for it. I think we should all band together and boycott this
stupid additional hoop someone has decided we should jump through. Nursing
had had us jumping through additional hoops for years... and now others are
going to tell us to jump further, higher, and more? Enough is enough. I'm
%*#@#$* done! 
Dena Galler

-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of brocsanche at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:54 PM
To: peg at fhea.com; npinfo at nurse.net
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] AMA News

I'm already signed up to take the exam. I personally think it's a great
idea. If we all take the exam and can demonstrate that we are comparable to
physicians (since we pass similar exams) then what's left to their
argument?  

Broc Enrique Ramón de Peña Sánchez
DNP, NEA-BC, PMH-CNS-BC, PMHNP-BC, FNP-BC, FNP-C
9331 East Lake Highlands Drive
Dallas, Texas 75218-2723
Work Email: Broc.Sanchez at va.gov
Cell (972) 859-9934
Home (214) 328-8378
Home Email: ExecPsySvs at aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP
<pegf at hotmail.com>
To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 8:08 pm
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] AMA News

OK- Anyone on list with a DNP planning on taking the exam? 
Dr. Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, FNP-BC, NP-C, FAANP, CSP 
resident, Fitzgerald Health Education Associates, Inc. 
5 Flagship Drive 
orth Andover, MA 01845-6154 
78.794.8366 
FHEA website www.fhea.com 
HEA on line store www.fhea.biz 
peg at fhea.com
FNP, Adjunct Faculty, Family Practice Residency 
reater Lawrence (MA) Family Health Center, Inc.

 From: galdena at sbcglobal.net
 To: npinfo at nurse.net
 Subject: RE: [NPInfo] AMA News
 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:24:51 -0700

 I also find it amusing that MDs are apparently just nervous about the DNP
 degree... have they expressed the same sentiments about NPs in the clinical
 setting with PhDs or DNSc? Plus do THOSE doctorally prepared NPs have to
 take another credentialing exam? Also the latest on the movement by the AMA
 to limit the title "Dr" in a healthcare setting to only MD/DOs, dentists,
 and podiatrists, leaves out doctorally prepared PT/OTs, chiropractors
 (understandable given the long history of turf wars between MD/DOs and
 chiropractors), and to psychologists as well! Now THAT'S not going to sit
 well with everyone, is it <G>?
 Dena Galler

 -----Original Message-----
 From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
 Of AnnMarie Roetzer
 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:09 PM
 To: NP Info
 Subject: Re: [NPInfo] AMA News

 I even find the tone of the initial article condescending. When are they
 going to get it... I don't want to provide the same care of a physician, I
 want to provide my own type of care which is a fusion of medicine and
 nursing as well. I provide caring compassionate well-informed care which is
 much appreciated by my patients. I take the time to make sure that their
 needs are met. 

   Futhermore, it is obvious that this NP in the article must not practice
 independently as they "allow her" full prescriptive authority and when she
 is in the office they "feel free" to do hospital rounds or take a day off.
 How condescending! 

   I got into a big argument after interviewing a new nurse the other day
 with the nursing supervisor. The nurse works in a jail and see patients
 according to protocols -- the nursing supervisor said "well its similar to
 what you do as an nurse practitioner and that takes critical thinking" I
was
 furious I replied that it is not similar -- and where are my standard
 protocols. I also heard one of the front desk staff telling a patient that
I
 "work under" Dr. So and So, well needless to say there was some education
 provided that in fact work "in collaboration with" the physicians -- his
 reply, well same difference you know what I meant.

   My last question, why are nurse anesthestists having the turf battles and
 drama -- they seem to be well-accepted and I never hear someone say "well
 thats just the nurse anesthestist NOT the doctor." Maybe we should study
 their model... seems to working better. 

   Its a shame to see everything that we have worked for --- just be
trashed.

   Ok my rant is over -- I rarely pipe in on these issues, but I am steamed
 now...

   Take care,
   AnnMarie 

 David Mittman <dmittman at comcast.net> wrote:
   This is all such BS but the people at Columbia may by their mistakes 
 still positively push on the envelope. This remains to be seen. Where 
 doesw this place :PAs and NPs who don't want to play in this?
 Dave
 ???

 PROFESSIONAL ISSUES

 Medical testing board to introduce doctor of nursing certification

 Physicians are concerned that the move will lead to scope-of-practice 
 expansions.

 By Myrle Croasdale, AMNews staff. June 16, 2008.

 Starting this fall, doctor of nursing practice graduates will be able 
 to take a certification test that proponents say will set a national 
 standard for DNPs and add to the profession's credibility.

 The voluntary test, being created by the National Board of Medical 
 Examiners, is based on the medical licensing exam. It will be offered 
 at a time of growing momentum in the DNP movement: About 200 nursing 
 schools are expected to offer the two-year DNP degree by 2015 -- more 
 than double the programs available today.

 Discuss on Sermo
 ???

 The making of "Dr. Nurse"
 See related content
 Test proponents said the DNPs, called "doctor nurses" by some in the 
 nursing profession, are comparable with primary care physicians in 
 their diagnostic and disease-management skills.

 But physicians expressed concerns that DNPs will use the test as 
 leverage to seek scope-of-practice expansions that cross into medical 
 practice.

 "Why would they get a DNP unless they want to do things that are 
 currently not in the nursing scope of practice in most states?" asked 
 AMA Board of Trustees Secretary William A. Hazel Jr., MD. "It makes 
 sense they will want to change their scope."

 The AMA and the American Academy of Family Physicians said they 
 support advances in nursing education but emphasized that nurses 
 should operate as part of a health care team under physician 
 supervision. Dr. Hazel said there are important distinctions between 
 DNPs and physicians that the public should understand.

 "I do not want to be construed as attacking nurses, but there are 
 concerns," Dr. Hazel said. "There's a difference in training that 
 should not be overlooked."

 In April, the nonprofit Council for the Advancement of Comprehensive 
 Care contracted with the NBME to create the exam, which is expected 
 to be offered in November.

 Mary Mundinger, DrPH, speaking for the council, said the goal is for 
 a national standard that distinguishes DNPs who have an advanced 
 clinical knowledge from those who have an emphasis in research, 
 administration or systems management.

 "While a primary care physician went to medical school and did 
 residency, a nurse practitioner with a DNP has achieved many of the 
 same competencies but through nursing education," said Mundinger, who 
 also is dean of Columbia University School of Nursing in New York 
 City. "They have the same skills in identifying a disease state and 
 treating it, but it's a different hybrid of care."

 Using a similar test

 Richard Hawkins, MD, NBME vice president for assessment programs, 
 said the test will be based on Step 3 of the U.S. Medical Licensing 
 Exam, the last level in the test series.

 "We're a testing organization, and this fit our mission," said Dr. 
 Hawkins. The NMBE develops assessments for health care professionals 
 in general, not just for physicians.

 Mundinger said about 75 graduates qualify to take the DNP 
 certification test. Once nursing schools finish their program 
 expansions, she expects there will be at least 2,000 DNPs graduating 
 each year. Candidates must first complete a master's-level nurse 
 practitioner degree before they begin a DNP program.

 Though DNPs have a year of residency as part of their two-year 
 program, Dr. Hazel said, it is important to recognize the difference 
 between physicians' and nurses' residencies.

 Residency, DNP style

 DNPs' residency year entails 1,000 hours, Dr. Hazel said. Medical 
 residents work 80 hours a week, racking up about 4,000 hours their 
 first year and approximately 12,000 hours over three years, he added. 
 In addition, patients could easily confuse these nurses with a 
 licensed physician.

 "Let's make sure they make the distinction between a doctor of 
 nursing and medical doctor," Dr. Hazel said.

 At press time in early June, the AMA House of Delegates was expected 
 to consider a resolution to endorse policy that the title "doctor" be 
 used only by licensed physicians, dentists and podiatrists in a 
 medical setting. The resolution also sought to have the title 
 "resident" apply only to individuals enrolled in a medical, dental or 
 podiatry training program.

 Another resolution sought to oppose the NBME's development of the 
 certification test and to urge the Association to adopt policy that 
 DNPs practice under physician supervision.

 AAFP President James King, MD, said that although these nurses pass a 
 test similar to the one for medical school graduates, that does not 
 make them physicians.

 "I don't think they can replace family physicians," Dr. King said.

 "If they are sincere in saying they are going to contribute to easing 
 the physician work force shortage, they'll work as part of a team, 
 not leading that team," he said.

 Mundinger said the nursing degree and test do not alter existing 
 scope-of-practice rules, but as DNPs demonstrate their expertise, she 
 expects that scope to change.

 "The more nurses prove they can do certain things, the more likely it 
 is legislation will follow, but there is no direct link between 
 certification and what nurses [legally] can do," Mundinger said.

 Working with physicians

 Richard Mulder, MD, is a family physician in Ivanhoe, Minn., who has 
 worked with Dawn Bucher, DNP, since she was a registered nurse and 
 then a nurse practitioner. He said her level of expertise as a DNP 
 has eased his workload.

 On days she works, he feels free to do hospital rounds or take a 
 coveted day off.

 He is confident that patients will be well taken care of by Bucher. 
 He and his partner set her prescribing formulary and have given her 
 unrestricted prescribing authority.

 Bucher said the biggest impact her DNP degree has had is how she 
 thinks about patient care. She looks for ways to better meet 
 patients' needs and coordinate their care.

 "We're all about patient care," she said.

 Bucher does not introduce herself as doctor. When the voluntary DNP 
 certification test is available, she plans to take it.

 ???
 Discuss on Sermo
 Back to top.

 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

 The making of "Dr. Nurse"

 The doctor of nursing practice degree is a two-year program open only 
 to those who hold a master's degree in advanced-practice nursing. New 
 York's Columbia University School of Nursing, one of the schools 
 offering this degree, has a 40-credit-hour curriculum that includes a 
 year-long residency.

 1. Support core courses (19 credit hours):

 Translation and synthesis of evidence for optimal outcomes
 Quantitative research methods
 Legal and ethical issues
 Clinical genomics advanced seminar
 Practice management
 Informatics
 2. Clinical core courses (11 credit hours):

 Doctor of nursing practice I and IIv
 Didacting and clinical
 Chronic illness management.
 Doctor of nursing practice I and II
 Didactic and clinical
 Chronic illness management
 3. Residency/seminar (10 credit hours)

 Source: Columbia University School of Nursing

 Back to top.

 _______________________________________________
 NPInfo mailing list
 NPInfo at nurse.net
 http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
 *****************************

 _______________________________________________
 NPInfo mailing list
 NPInfo at nurse.net
 http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
 *****************************

 _______________________________________________
 NPInfo mailing list
 NPInfo at nurse.net
 http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
 *****************************

______________________________________________
PInfo mailing list
PInfo at nurse.net
ttp://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
****************************

_______________________________________________
NPInfo mailing list
NPInfo at nurse.net
http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo
*****************************