[NPInfo] AMA News
Rose Moran-Kelly
rosemorankelly at gmail.com
Tue Jun 10 20:21:26 PDT 2008
This reply comes from Dr Galler...am I correct? and thank you. I do not
wish to take a test administered by MDs...Rose
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:15 PM, Dena <galdena at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> WHAT'S LEFT TO ARGUE???? The whole purpose of this exam!! The fact that a
> non-NP nursing academia type and medical associations are pushing for it
> for
> their own agendas. The fact that this test is for DNP NPs only and further
> separates the profession by alienating the MSN prepared NP. That the
> bridging NP programs generally don't contain any clinical components to
> them
> so what exactly are we testing??? I already proved my competency in the
> clinical arena by taking the ANCC FNP certification exam after my MSN
> program. That the certifying bodies stand to make a lot more money off of
> us
> by pushing this additional exam. And the fact that no other EDUCATIONAL
> DEGREE needs a certification exam to prove they deserve their doctoral
> degrees (PhD, DNSc, etc). No one can HONESTLY believe that if we pass this
> little new exam that MDs will finally accept us as equal colleagues. OH NO!
> They will always find something else to throw in our faces because they
> don't WANT us as equal colleagues. I think THAT little list sums up MY
> opposition for it. I think we should all band together and boycott this
> stupid additional hoop someone has decided we should jump through. Nursing
> had had us jumping through additional hoops for years... and now others are
> going to tell us to jump further, higher, and more? Enough is enough. I'm
> %*#@#$* done!
> Dena Galler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
> Of brocsanche at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:54 PM
> To: peg at fhea.com; npinfo at nurse.net
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] AMA News
>
> I'm already signed up to take the exam. I personally think it's a great
> idea. If we all take the exam and can demonstrate that we are comparable to
> physicians (since we pass similar exams) then what's left to their
> argument?
>
>
> Broc Enrique Ramón de Peña Sánchez
> DNP, NEA-BC, PMH-CNS-BC, PMHNP-BC, FNP-BC, FNP-C
> 9331 East Lake Highlands Drive
> Dallas, Texas 75218-2723
> Work Email: Broc.Sanchez at va.gov
> Cell (972) 859-9934
> Home (214) 328-8378
> Home Email: ExecPsySvs at aol.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, NP-C, FNP-BC, FAANP, CSP
> <pegf at hotmail.com>
> To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
> Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 8:08 pm
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] AMA News
>
>
>
> OK- Anyone on list with a DNP planning on taking the exam?
> Dr. Margaret A. Fitzgerald, DNP, FNP-BC, NP-C, FAANP, CSP
> resident, Fitzgerald Health Education Associates, Inc.
> 5 Flagship Drive
> orth Andover, MA 01845-6154
> 78.794.8366
> FHEA website www.fhea.com
> HEA on line store www.fhea.biz
> peg at fhea.com
> FNP, Adjunct Faculty, Family Practice Residency
> reater Lawrence (MA) Family Health Center, Inc.
>
> From: galdena at sbcglobal.net
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] AMA News
> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:24:51 -0700
>
> I also find it amusing that MDs are apparently just nervous about the DNP
> degree... have they expressed the same sentiments about NPs in the
> clinical
> setting with PhDs or DNSc? Plus do THOSE doctorally prepared NPs have to
> take another credentialing exam? Also the latest on the movement by the
> AMA
> to limit the title "Dr" in a healthcare setting to only MD/DOs, dentists,
> and podiatrists, leaves out doctorally prepared PT/OTs, chiropractors
> (understandable given the long history of turf wars between MD/DOs and
> chiropractors), and to psychologists as well! Now THAT'S not going to sit
> well with everyone, is it <G>?
> Dena Galler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf
> Of AnnMarie Roetzer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:09 PM
> To: NP Info
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] AMA News
>
> I even find the tone of the initial article condescending. When are they
> going to get it... I don't want to provide the same care of a physician, I
> want to provide my own type of care which is a fusion of medicine and
> nursing as well. I provide caring compassionate well-informed care which
> is
> much appreciated by my patients. I take the time to make sure that their
> needs are met.
>
> Futhermore, it is obvious that this NP in the article must not practice
> independently as they "allow her" full prescriptive authority and when she
> is in the office they "feel free" to do hospital rounds or take a day off.
> How condescending!
>
> I got into a big argument after interviewing a new nurse the other day
> with the nursing supervisor. The nurse works in a jail and see patients
> according to protocols -- the nursing supervisor said "well its similar to
> what you do as an nurse practitioner and that takes critical thinking" I
> was
> furious I replied that it is not similar -- and where are my standard
> protocols. I also heard one of the front desk staff telling a patient that
> I
> "work under" Dr. So and So, well needless to say there was some education
> provided that in fact work "in collaboration with" the physicians -- his
> reply, well same difference you know what I meant.
>
> My last question, why are nurse anesthestists having the turf battles and
> drama -- they seem to be well-accepted and I never hear someone say "well
> thats just the nurse anesthestist NOT the doctor." Maybe we should study
> their model... seems to working better.
>
> Its a shame to see everything that we have worked for --- just be
> trashed.
>
> Ok my rant is over -- I rarely pipe in on these issues, but I am steamed
> now...
>
> Take care,
> AnnMarie
>
> David Mittman <dmittman at comcast.net> wrote:
> This is all such BS but the people at Columbia may by their mistakes
> still positively push on the envelope. This remains to be seen. Where
> doesw this place :PAs and NPs who don't want to play in this?
> Dave
> ???
>
> PROFESSIONAL ISSUES
>
> Medical testing board to introduce doctor of nursing certification
>
> Physicians are concerned that the move will lead to scope-of-practice
> expansions.
>
> By Myrle Croasdale, AMNews staff. June 16, 2008.
>
> Starting this fall, doctor of nursing practice graduates will be able
> to take a certification test that proponents say will set a national
> standard for DNPs and add to the profession's credibility.
>
> The voluntary test, being created by the National Board of Medical
> Examiners, is based on the medical licensing exam. It will be offered
> at a time of growing momentum in the DNP movement: About 200 nursing
> schools are expected to offer the two-year DNP degree by 2015 -- more
> than double the programs available today.
>
> Discuss on Sermo
> ???
>
> The making of "Dr. Nurse"
> See related content
> Test proponents said the DNPs, called "doctor nurses" by some in the
> nursing profession, are comparable with primary care physicians in
> their diagnostic and disease-management skills.
>
> But physicians expressed concerns that DNPs will use the test as
> leverage to seek scope-of-practice expansions that cross into medical
> practice.
>
> "Why would they get a DNP unless they want to do things that are
> currently not in the nursing scope of practice in most states?" asked
> AMA Board of Trustees Secretary William A. Hazel Jr., MD. "It makes
> sense they will want to change their scope."
>
> The AMA and the American Academy of Family Physicians said they
> support advances in nursing education but emphasized that nurses
> should operate as part of a health care team under physician
> supervision. Dr. Hazel said there are important distinctions between
> DNPs and physicians that the public should understand.
>
> "I do not want to be construed as attacking nurses, but there are
> concerns," Dr. Hazel said. "There's a difference in training that
> should not be overlooked."
>
> In April, the nonprofit Council for the Advancement of Comprehensive
> Care contracted with the NBME to create the exam, which is expected
> to be offered in November.
>
> Mary Mundinger, DrPH, speaking for the council, said the goal is for
> a national standard that distinguishes DNPs who have an advanced
> clinical knowledge from those who have an emphasis in research,
> administration or systems management.
>
> "While a primary care physician went to medical school and did
> residency, a nurse practitioner with a DNP has achieved many of the
> same competencies but through nursing education," said Mundinger, who
> also is dean of Columbia University School of Nursing in New York
> City. "They have the same skills in identifying a disease state and
> treating it, but it's a different hybrid of care."
>
> Using a similar test
>
> Richard Hawkins, MD, NBME vice president for assessment programs,
> said the test will be based on Step 3 of the U.S. Medical Licensing
> Exam, the last level in the test series.
>
> "We're a testing organization, and this fit our mission," said Dr.
> Hawkins. The NMBE develops assessments for health care professionals
> in general, not just for physicians.
>
> Mundinger said about 75 graduates qualify to take the DNP
> certification test. Once nursing schools finish their program
> expansions, she expects there will be at least 2,000 DNPs graduating
> each year. Candidates must first complete a master's-level nurse
> practitioner degree before they begin a DNP program.
>
> Though DNPs have a year of residency as part of their two-year
> program, Dr. Hazel said, it is important to recognize the difference
> between physicians' and nurses' residencies.
>
> Residency, DNP style
>
> DNPs' residency year entails 1,000 hours, Dr. Hazel said. Medical
> residents work 80 hours a week, racking up about 4,000 hours their
> first year and approximately 12,000 hours over three years, he added.
> In addition, patients could easily confuse these nurses with a
> licensed physician.
>
> "Let's make sure they make the distinction between a doctor of
> nursing and medical doctor," Dr. Hazel said.
>
> At press time in early June, the AMA House of Delegates was expected
> to consider a resolution to endorse policy that the title "doctor" be
> used only by licensed physicians, dentists and podiatrists in a
> medical setting. The resolution also sought to have the title
> "resident" apply only to individuals enrolled in a medical, dental or
> podiatry training program.
>
> Another resolution sought to oppose the NBME's development of the
> certification test and to urge the Association to adopt policy that
> DNPs practice under physician supervision.
>
> AAFP President James King, MD, said that although these nurses pass a
> test similar to the one for medical school graduates, that does not
> make them physicians.
>
> "I don't think they can replace family physicians," Dr. King said.
>
> "If they are sincere in saying they are going to contribute to easing
> the physician work force shortage, they'll work as part of a team,
> not leading that team," he said.
>
> Mundinger said the nursing degree and test do not alter existing
> scope-of-practice rules, but as DNPs demonstrate their expertise, she
> expects that scope to change.
>
> "The more nurses prove they can do certain things, the more likely it
> is legislation will follow, but there is no direct link between
> certification and what nurses [legally] can do," Mundinger said.
>
> Working with physicians
>
> Richard Mulder, MD, is a family physician in Ivanhoe, Minn., who has
> worked with Dawn Bucher, DNP, since she was a registered nurse and
> then a nurse practitioner. He said her level of expertise as a DNP
> has eased his workload.
>
> On days she works, he feels free to do hospital rounds or take a
> coveted day off.
>
> He is confident that patients will be well taken care of by Bucher.
> He and his partner set her prescribing formulary and have given her
> unrestricted prescribing authority.
>
> Bucher said the biggest impact her DNP degree has had is how she
> thinks about patient care. She looks for ways to better meet
> patients' needs and coordinate their care.
>
> "We're all about patient care," she said.
>
> Bucher does not introduce herself as doctor. When the voluntary DNP
> certification test is available, she plans to take it.
>
>
> ???
> Discuss on Sermo
> Back to top.
>
>
>
>
> ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
>
> The making of "Dr. Nurse"
>
> The doctor of nursing practice degree is a two-year program open only
> to those who hold a master's degree in advanced-practice nursing. New
> York's Columbia University School of Nursing, one of the schools
> offering this degree, has a 40-credit-hour curriculum that includes a
> year-long residency.
>
> 1. Support core courses (19 credit hours):
>
> Translation and synthesis of evidence for optimal outcomes
> Quantitative research methods
> Legal and ethical issues
> Clinical genomics advanced seminar
> Practice management
> Informatics
> 2. Clinical core courses (11 credit hours):
>
> Doctor of nursing practice I and IIv
> Didacting and clinical
> Chronic illness management.
> Doctor of nursing practice I and II
> Didactic and clinical
> Chronic illness management
> 3. Residency/seminar (10 credit hours)
>
> Source: Columbia University School of Nursing
>
> Back to top.
>
>
> Copyright 2008 American Medical Association. All rights reserved.
>
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