[NPInfo] DNP

Wed Jun 18 18:51:59 PDT 2008

The DNP programs will undoubtedly have clinical Advanced Practice tracts
like the MSN programs-- NPs (in their various tracts), CNMs, etc. What they
are NOT supposed to have is nursing education and administration tracts as
they are NOT clinical. And, as I've mentioned before, some programs are
already screwing up the whole concept of a clinical doctorate degree by
adding these non-clinical specialties and granting them DNPs. As we all
know, schools will do anything and let anyone in to make money <sigh>.
Sorry-- I don't have the answers for you, Dave. I didn't set this crap up,
didn't vote for it, nor did anyone ask my opinion about it before starting
all of it. Those Ivory Tower people who are in charge of all of this will
have to solve the mess-- and, hopefully, they will-- but I'm not too
optimistic. This is what happened to the DNSc degree as well... it was
ORIGINALLY intended to be the clinical doctoral degree... but morphed into a
research-based copy of the nursing PhD. Who knows what the DNP will end up
being? I know that about a year ago I received a survey from my school
asking my opinion about letting non-clinical specialties into the DNP
program. I certainly gave them my opinion on the subject!! LOL
And, by the way, the DNP is NOT considered a terminal degree... it will be
the ENTRY level for NPs (and other Advanced Practice nurses. The PhD will
still be considered nursing's terminal degree.
Dena Galler

-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of David Mittman
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:25 PM
To: NP Info
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP

Dena: As you know I am not an NP so sometimes I do not understand the  
nuances.
As non-NPs are 2/3, 1/2, all, some, of the current  DNP candidates,  
will they then in the four year programs also become NPs when they  
graduate? If all CNSs, midwives, etc are eligible will they  
transition to the NP terminal clinical degree?
If you tell me that when they go to the DNP as a four year post-grad  
program, all will become NPs, then this IS an NP degree. If so, why  
have so many non-NPs becoming non-NP DNPs now? Why have half of the  
DNPs not be NPs if it is the terminal NP degree and will as you say  
have NP rotations in peeds, IM, derm, cardiology, etc?
If one is going to have really advanced clinical rotations they can  
not be so general that they will appeal to midwives and RNFAs. If one  
is to have significantly elevated training one must have a very  
finite, vertical goal in mind. Hope you understand my question.
Anyway, I sound confused because I am...........................
Thanks,
Dave
On Jun 18, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Dena wrote:

> And that is the reason the NP programs are being expanded to 4  
> years in the
> future-- they can't fit everything into the old 2 year programs any  
> more--
> there's just way too much to learn. And since the programs are being
> expanded in length, there will be way more credits than required  
> for a MSN,
> so they've made it a doctoral program. So, in the 4 year DNP  
> programs you'll
> still have all the theory, policy, health care economics, EBP, etc  
> and you
> will have room for much more clinical time, including, hopefully, a  
> year of
> clinical residency. That's the dream, at least. We'll see if it  
> actually
> happens or if the schools will screw it all up!
> Dena Galler
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On  
> Behalf
> Of margienp at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:10 PM
> To: npinfo at nurse.net
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP
>
> Hello,
> I graduated more than 20 years ago with my MSN, My program was 4  
> semester
> and we were very heavy on clinical hours. I hire, NP's and I have  
> noticed
> that , grads in the last 10 years do not seem to have as many hours.
> I have tryed to speak with the Director of our local MSN program  
> but they do
> not want to talk to anyone, unless you are in education! Da , I  
> hired their
> grads.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lisa Meyer <meyerlm at chartermi.net>
> To: NP Info <npinfo at nurse.net>
> Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 7:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP
>
>
> Okay,?
> I understand Dena. BUT... My MSN program was very heavy in theory,  
> research,
> policy, and leadership. VERY light on clinical content. From what I  
> have
> found talking to colleagues is that my program was not atypical. I  
> have been
> out in practice as an NP for 7 years... I am having a really hard time
> getting fired up to take more theory, leadership, policy, and  
> research. Why
> should I be? I do not think these things will enhance my practice,  
> and they
> are not the things I especially enjoy studying. As for more  
> clinical content
> at this point--I would gladly attend a program that had it. Perhaps  
> I am
> unusual, but I don't think that any number of years in practice  
> could make
> me an expert in all that I see (emergency dept. and mental health).  
> There is
> just so much to know. A couple of conferences a year doesn't begin  
> to touch
> it. And at least for me, it is the stuff I love learning about. I  
> can't
> stand the thought of 12 months solid of the stuff I disliked the  
> first time
> around! And h!
>  ow many theory classes exactly does one need to practice as an NP?  
> Of just
> my MSN program, I had 3 separate, semester-long courses in nursing  
> theory.
> How do I manage to practice???
> ?
> Lisa?
> ?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dena" <galdena at sbcglobal.net>?
> To: <danabhigbee at cox.net>; "'NP Info'" <npinfo at nurse.net>?
> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 3:26 PM?
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] DNP?
> ?
>> Dana-?
>> I'm kind of betting that "every DNP program" that you've  
>> investigated so >
> far?
>> is a two year bridging program for those who are already MSN  
>> prepared NPs?
>> and THAT is why there is little to no clinical courses included in  
>> the?
>> curriculum-- we already had the clinical stuff in our MSN  
>> programs. When >
> the?
>> 4 year BSN-to-DNP NP programs start, THAT'S when you'll see the  
>> clinical?
>> courses. You don't mention how long you've been a NP, but do you  
>> not feel?
>> you already have the clinical knowledge to care for your patients?  
>> I've >
> been?
>> in practice for almost 15 yrs... I know how to do a complete PE,  
>> take an?
>> extensive history, manage chronic and acute illnesses, suture  
>> wounds and?
>> perform other minor office procedures, educate my patients, and, best
> yet,?
>> know my limitations, scope of practice, and when to collaborate  
>> with a?
>> physician or refer out to specialists. I can't see at this late  
>> date what?
>> doing clinical rotations in a DNP program was going to teach me.  
>> If you >
> need?
>> the extra clinical contents, just wait a couple of years until the  
>> 4 year?
>> DNP programs start exploding all over the place and then you can  
>> have the?
>> option of starting your NP education all over again. YUCK! <G>?
>> And "one course on evidence-based-practice)?? Gosh, the majority  
>> of our?
>> program was built around that-- not just one class!?
>> Dena Galler?
>> ?
>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf?
>> Of Dana Higbee?
>> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:35 PM?
>> To: npinfo at nurse.net?
>> Subject: [NPInfo] DNP?
>> ?
>> Regarding the DNP becoming entry level for all NPs: I have mixed?
>> feelings about this. My main beef: The DNP is supposed to be a?
>> "practice doctorate", i.e. it should make us better practitioners.?
>> Every DNP program I've investigated has majored on theory,  
>> management?
>> and leadership, health systems, and research. (On a positive note,?
>> most do include a course on evidence-based-practice). I don't want  
>> to?
>> be a clinic owner, or a health policy maker, or an administrator. I?
>> want course content that will help me take better care of the  
>> patients?
>> I see every day. Otherwise, I just don't see the point of the DNP?
>> for me personally, unless my MSN eventually proves to be a barrier  
>> to?
>> practice. At age 52, I'm hoping the "eventual" will be a long time?
>> from now. 'Say at least 25 years.?
>> ?
>> Dana Higbee?
>> FNP?
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