[NPInfo] DNP

Thu Jun 19 10:04:01 PDT 2008

Dave--
  Don't be so quick to sell yourself short-- you're not confused... Apparently you have a complete understanding of the DNP degree!! It really is as messed up as you think it is!  LOL
  Dena Galler

David Mittman <dmittman at advancedprac.com> wrote:
  Laura: All of this is my point. The differences between what people 
believe the DNP is, and what it is, are two very different things. 
Again, I am an interested observer-someone who knows more about 
healthcare, healthcare politics, and healthcare policy than 99% of 
most clinicians. I don't have a clue.....first it's the terminal 
CLINICAL degree for NPs, then it's not just for NPs, then there is 
little to NO clinical in the bridge programs but that will change in 
the future, then it's really not a clinical degree, then it will give 
us the rotations we will need to really get prepared to practice when 
we graduate, then it's for all nurses and has little just to do with 
JUST NPs but some people can take the NBME test and some can't but we 
will show everyone we are as good as physicians.
OMG, people ask me to explain just what it is NPs will get out of it? 
Possibly a good title which DOES elevate the profession but if not 
translated into clinical rotations taught by experienced clinicians 
with real in-patient and out-patent hours, how will it advance the 
graduate's clinical skills?
I really don't want to be a pain, but all of the above has been 
written on this forum by experts who totally understand what's going 
on and so much is contradictory. Also the news articles mostly by one 
group really say something completely different than what we are seeing.
Dave

On Jun 19, 2008, at 7:37 AM, Thiem wrote:

> Really? Then what's all of the commotion about clinical hours?
>
> And if this is "the" terminal degree-what's to become of the PhD 
> prepared nurses? Will they need to attain a DNP to practice?
>
> Laura
>
> "Gjere, Niki" wrote: And any administrator, 
> educator, etc. There is a misconception that if
> you have a DNP it is a clinical degree. It is not.
>
>
> Niki
>
> Niki A. Gjere, MA, MS, RN, PMHCNS-BC
> Psychiatric Clinical Nurse Specialist
> Adult & Senior Behavioral Services
> University of Minnesota Medical Center, Fairview
> 2450 Riverside Avenue
> Minneapolis, MN 55454
> email: ngjere1 at fairview.org
> Phone: 612-273-6439
> Pager: 612-527-7437
> FAX: 612-273-6155
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf Of Joanne DaCunha
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:19 AM
> To: NP Info
> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] DNP
>
> The DNP is NOT just a degree for an NP. It's the terminal clinical
> degree for CNS. CRNA, CNM, and NP. Any advanced practice nurse.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
> Behalf Of David Mittman
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:25 PM
> To: NP Info
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP
>
> Dena: As you know I am not an NP so sometimes I do not understand the
> nuances.
> As non-NPs are 2/3, 1/2, all, some, of the current DNP candidates, 
> will
> they then in the four year programs also become NPs when they 
> graduate?
> If all CNSs, midwives, etc are eligible will they transition to the NP
> terminal clinical degree?
> If you tell me that when they go to the DNP as a four year post-grad
> program, all will become NPs, then this IS an NP degree. If so, why 
> have
> so many non-NPs becoming non-NP DNPs now? Why have half of the DNPs 
> not
> be NPs if it is the terminal NP degree and will as you say have NP
> rotations in peeds, IM, derm, cardiology, etc?
> If one is going to have really advanced clinical rotations they can 
> not
> be so general that they will appeal to midwives and RNFAs. If one 
> is to
> have significantly elevated training one must have a very finite,
> vertical goal in mind. Hope you understand my question.
> Anyway, I sound confused because I am...........................
> Thanks,
> Dave
> On Jun 18, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Dena wrote:
>
>> And that is the reason the NP programs are being expanded to 4 years
>> in the
>> future-- they can't fit everything into the old 2 year programs any
>> more--
>> there's just way too much to learn. And since the programs are being
>> expanded in length, there will be way more credits than required 
>> for a
>
>> MSN, so they've made it a doctoral program. So, in the 4 year DNP
>> programs you'll still have all the theory, policy, health care
>> economics, EBP, etc and you will have room for much more clinical
>> time, including, hopefully, a year of clinical residency. That's the
>> dream, at least. We'll see if it actually happens or if the schools
>> will screw it all up!
>> Dena Galler
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
>> Behalf Of margienp at aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:10 PM
>> To: npinfo at nurse.net
>> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP
>>
>> Hello,
>> I graduated more than 20 years ago with my MSN, My program was 4
>> semester and we were very heavy on clinical hours. I hire, NP's and I
>> have noticed that , grads in the last 10 years do not seem to have as
>> many hours.
>> I have tryed to speak with the Director of our local MSN program but
>> they do not want to talk to anyone, unless you are in education! Da ,
>> I hired their grads.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lisa Meyer
>> To: NP Info
>> Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 7:41 pm
>> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP
>>
>>
>> Okay,?
>> I understand Dena. BUT... My MSN program was very heavy in theory,
>> research, policy, and leadership. VERY light on clinical content. 
>> From
>
>> what I have found talking to colleagues is that my program was not
>> atypical. I have been out in practice as an NP for 7 years... I am
>> having a really hard time getting fired up to take more theory,
>> leadership, policy, and research. Why should I be? I do not think
>> these things will enhance my practice, and they are not the things I
>> especially enjoy studying. As for more clinical content at this
>> point--I would gladly attend a program that had it. Perhaps I am
>> unusual, but I don't think that any number of years in practice could
>> make me an expert in all that I see (emergency dept. and mental
>> health).
>> There is
>> just so much to know. A couple of conferences a year doesn't begin to
>> touch it. And at least for me, it is the stuff I love learning about.
>> I can't stand the thought of 12 months solid of the stuff I disliked
>> the first time around! And h!
>> ow many theory classes exactly does one need to practice as an NP?
>> Of just
>> my MSN program, I had 3 separate, semester-long courses in nursing
>> theory.
>> How do I manage to practice???
>> ?
>> Lisa?
>> ?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dena" ?
>> To: ; "'NP Info'" ?
>> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 3:26 PM?
>> Subject: RE: [NPInfo] DNP?
>> ?
>>> Dana-?
>>> I'm kind of betting that "every DNP program" that you've 
>>> investigated
>
>>> so >
>> far?
>>> is a two year bridging program for those who are already MSN 
>>> prepared
>
>>> NPs?
>>> and THAT is why there is little to no clinical courses included in
>>> the?
>>> curriculum-- we already had the clinical stuff in our MSN programs.
>>> When >
>> the?
>>> 4 year BSN-to-DNP NP programs start, THAT'S when you'll see the
>>> clinical?
>>> courses. You don't mention how long you've been a NP, but do you not
>>> feel?
>>> you already have the clinical knowledge to care for your patients?
>>> I've >
>> been?
>>> in practice for almost 15 yrs... I know how to do a complete PE, 
>>> take
>
>>> an?
>>> extensive history, manage chronic and acute illnesses, suture wounds
>>> and?
>>> perform other minor office procedures, educate my patients, and, 
>>> best
>> yet,?
>>> know my limitations, scope of practice, and when to collaborate with
>>> a?
>>> physician or refer out to specialists. I can't see at this late date
>>> what?
>>> doing clinical rotations in a DNP program was going to teach me.
>>> If you >
>> need?
>>> the extra clinical contents, just wait a couple of years until the
>>> 4 year?
>>> DNP programs start exploding all over the place and then you can 
>>> have
>
>>> the?
>>> option of starting your NP education all over again. YUCK! ?
>>> And "one course on evidence-based-practice)?? Gosh, the majority of
>>> our?
>>> program was built around that-- not just one class!?
>>> Dena Galler?
>>> ?
>>> -----Original Message-----?
>>> From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On
>> Behalf?
>>> Of Dana Higbee?
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:35 PM?
>>> To: npinfo at nurse.net?
>>> Subject: [NPInfo] DNP?
>>> ?
>>> Regarding the DNP becoming entry level for all NPs: I have mixed?
>>> feelings about this. My main beef: The DNP is supposed to be a?
>>> "practice doctorate", i.e. it should make us better practitioners.?
>>> Every DNP program I've investigated has majored on theory,
>>> management?
>>> and leadership, health systems, and research. (On a positive note,?
>>> most do include a course on evidence-based-practice). I don't want
>>> to?
>>> be a clinic owner, or a health policy maker, or an administrator. I?
>>> want course content that will help me take better care of the
>>> patients?
>>> I see every day. Otherwise, I just don't see the point of the DNP?
>>> for me personally, unless my MSN eventually proves to be a barrier
>>> to?
>>> practice. At age 52, I'm hoping the "eventual" will be a long time?
>>> from now. 'Say at least 25 years.?
>>> ?
>>> Dana Higbee?
>>> FNP?
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