[NPInfo] Should teens be allowed to do this?

Mon Jun 23 06:57:54 PDT 2008

Ted
I agree with you in your analysis of the consequences of this sect--and it's
one of the reasons I don't care for organized religion at all! It can get
nutso! In any free society, there will be social experiments that go
horribly awry, but I am leary of a court-enforced version of acceptability,
as in the case in China, for example. You argue that it's a long way down
that "slippery slope" and I can't say I completely disagree. I have little
doubt that this kid felt pressure to conform, and frankly won't be quaking
in my democratic boots if the parents DO get prosecuted. On the other hand,
I think we owe due caution in this line of thinking: It's amazing how fast
things can change. And I think we need to exercise some restraint when it
comes to opprobrium, since after all, we weren't there. Maybe it's a better
thing to just draw a sharp line down the 18-year mark, and let the state
have sway when the person is under 18. 
Eric

PS: I see you're a "c" too. Good luck!
E

R. Eric Doerfler, CRNP, PhD(c), CCH
Instructor Of Nursing
RN-BS Program Coordinator
Penn State University, Capital Campus
777 W. Middletown Pike, Middletown PA 17057
717-948-6513 red1012 at psu.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf
Of Ted Rigney
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:50 PM
To: NP Info
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Should teens be allowed to do this?

> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:50:10 -0400> From: redoerfler at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [NPInfo] Should teens be allowed to do this?> To:
npinfo at nurse.net> > Have been following this thread a bit since I got back
(to email). It seems> like most people on the list are pretty angry about
this. Truth is, I think> most religion tends to get people into this sort of
hot water, eventually.> In fact, I'm no fan of any religion.> > On the other
hand, I think it's pretty glib to suggest that a 16-year-old> isn't capable
of having a valid opinion about life and death--and the depth> of religious
faith. We in health care (physicians, nurses) who have so much> power over
people in life, seem offended when they choose death, if WE think> the death
is unnecessary. If it's terminal cancer, we're ok with it: "He> gave it his
best shot...." But if something like this uremic kid, and it's a> choice
grounded in a discipline of faith then it somehow conflicts with our>
ideals, and then it's a "bad choice" and somebody has to be punished.> >
Hmm...> > Several noted authors have commented on the ethics of minors'
medical/health> decisions. A survey of these suggests that this young fellow
may well have> been capable of assent--agreeing to care (or...not). While I
would certainly> exhaust every gentle attempt to change his mind and the
minds of his> community, I don't think I would castigate them if they
allowed him his> wishes. (Apparently the Oregon Legislature thought so too.)
Personally, I> think such belief is bizarre. But I am an American, and while
our society> has a duty to protect children, the line between minority and
majority age> isn't reallt that sharp: I'd prefer us to err on the side
respecting> personal freedom. From what I've read, his community was doing
so. > > The alternative is--potentially--an escalating intrusion into
private> affairs. I didn't get into this business to act as such an agent.
If I> misunderstood something about this case, I would maintain my argument
in its> general sense. > e.d.> > R. Eric Doerfler, CRNP, PhD(c), CCH>
Instructor Of Nursing> RN-BS Program Coordinator> Penn State University,
Capital Campus> 777 W. Middletown Pike, Middletown PA 17057>
717-948-6513        red1012 at psu.edu> > > -----Original Message-----> From:
npinfo-bounces at nurse.net [mailto:npinfo-bounces at nurse.net] On Behalf> Of
David Mittman> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:29 PM> To: ACC; NPinfo Info;
PAForum at mc.duke.edu> Subject: [NPInfo] Should teens be allowed to do this?>
> Autopsy: Easy treatment for teen who died in failed 'faith healing'> > >
01:57 PM PDT on Wednesday, June 18, 2008> > > By NICK BRADSHAW and ANTONIA
GIEDWOYN, kgw.com Staff> > GLADSTONE, Ore. -- A 16-year-old member of a
faith healing church died of> uremic heart failure caused by a stricture in
his urinary tract, according> to autopsy results.> > The urinary tract
condition could have been fixed with a catheter, said Dr.> Cliff Nelson, the
state Medical Examiner. The outpatient procedure is> routine.> > Teen member
of faith healing church found dead> > > Instead, 16-year-old Neal Beagley's
urinary tract became inflamed and closed> off. He was unable to urinate,
which made his bladder and kidneys stop> functioning, the autopsy showed.
Toxins backed up into his blood stream.> > > > Beagley had started
complaining about stomach aches and shortness of breath> last week. The
family told police he did not want medical attention.> > > > Gladstone
police said relatives and church members told them the teenager> refused
treatment for the illness, as he was entitled to do under Oregon> law.> > >
> Officers and a deputy medical examiner were called to the family's house>
about an hour after the boy's death late Tuesday afternoon, said Sgt. Lynne>
Benton of the Gladstone Police Department.> > > > The Major Crimes Team
responded to the scene to investigate.> > > > Benton said the teen's family
was with him when he died.> > > > Like all members of the religious order,
Beagley did not receive medical> care. His condition worsened Sunday and
members of the church gathered for> prayer, Benton said.> > > > The family
belongs to the Oregon City Followers of Christ Church. The church> is a
fundamentalist Christian denomination that recently made headlines> after
two members were arrested and accused of using prayer instead of> medical
care to try to cure their deathly ill daughter.> > > > Second death at
church in recent months> > In March, the boy's 15-month-old cousin, Ava
Worthington, died at home from> bronchial pneumonia and a blood infection.>
> > > Her parents, Carl and Raylene Worthington, also failed to contact a
doctor> and are awaiting trial on criminal charges in her death.> >
Background: Couple arrested in faith healing death> > > > No one had been
arrested or charged with any crime in the latest case as of> Wednesday
morning, but the information will be forwarded to the Clackamas> County
District Attorney's Office for review, Benton said.> > > > Oregon lawmakers
passed new laws striking down legal shields for> faith-healing parents after
several children from the Followers of Christ> church died in the 1990s.> >
> > The Oregon City church is not associated with a mainstream
denomination.> > > > AP contributed to this>
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Hi all,
I think the conversation we are having on this listserv illustrates how
complex this issue really is for some.

What is not complex (for me anyway) is to think about this poor boy and how
horrible he must have been feeling in the last days of his life when he
couldn't urinate. How long does it take one to die of uremic heart failure
due to an obstructed urethra? I don't know, but at least a week, according
to the article by Bradshaw and Giedwoyn. I imagine this must have been a
very painful and distressing way to die. In fact, it sounds like torture to
me.

I agree with much of what Eric wrote. However, I do take exception with a
couple of things. First, I am not distressed about this case because of my
own thoughts about death and when it is appropriate to die- that has nothing
to do with this at all. 

I agree that a 16-year-old is capable of having an opinion about life and
death and that he can have a desire to demonstrate the depth of his
religious faith in certain ways. However, when I get uncomfortable with this
is when I think about the kind of life this adolescent probably led up to
this point. The little I read about the Followers of Christ- Oregon Church
describes the sect as one where its members isolate themselves from society,
"shun" other sect members for breaking the rules, and, other than attending
public school, children have no contact with outside society at all. 
Can anyone really think that this boy, 16-years-old, scared, in pain, and
surrounded by family and community members who can "shun" him if he asks for
help, is able to make a reasoned decision for himself? I think this would be
difficult for an adult to do; almost impossible for an adolescent.
In addition, I cannot imagine that I am the first to note that the
authorities did not arrive at the boy's home until after he was dead. We
have no way of knowing what this boy's desires truly were as he was dying.

Just like Eric, I am an American and I want to protect personal freedom,
too, but I also want to advocate for those among us who are vulnerable. I
also agree with Eric that the line between minority and majority is blurry.
However, I want to err on the side of saving lives and letting the courts
figure it out later.

Personally, I think it's too large a step to go from stopping a completely
unnecessary death in a healthy 16-year old and "escalating intrusion into
private affairs."

At the end of the day, my thoughts and prayers will be for that poor boy and
what he must have endured in his last days of life- all unnecessary. 

Ted Rigney PhD(c), RNP, ACNP-BC, FAANP
Assistant Director Nurse Practitioner Program University of Arizona College
of Nursing
trigney at nursing.arizona.edu_______________________________________________
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